[NSRCA-discussion] D3 FAI

Tue Oct 16 07:18:35 AKDT 2007

In attempting to understand "how" the FAI scoring is delivered, I have
made more rationalizations, hypothesis, or excuses for judges than
anyone can imagine - which range from:

1.	Maybe I suck :-) 
2.	Intentional bias
3.	Unintentional bias
4.	Ignorance of rules
5.	"Impression" judging

What I am finally left to guess is that a hybrid method of judging is
used by some FAI judges.  Pure speculation (beware):  When a pilot
begins disrupting a maneuver by 20 + degrees of error, the judging
standards are easily applied without too much difficulty.  

However - when more than one "outstanding" flight is being witnessed,
some judges may confuse their roll from "applying-downgrades", to that
of "determining a winner."  Determining winner is not what judges do.
Normalization does that.  In the instance of intensely good flying, the
judges may be saying to themselves, "....  This maneuver is teetering on
an 8 or 9, but I just watched person X fly and I know person X is better
than person Y, so I need to score this an 8."  Of course, this is not
accountable to our judging standards of code of ethics.

Again - this is just a WAG.  I have made more attempts to understand,
appreciate, support, and preserve the integrity of our institution as
anyone possible could.  At this point I need the Masters pilots to speak
to how they judge FAI.  How do Masters pilots apply the 15 degree rule
for instance???  I cannot really speak to what goes on in the FAI judges
mind, but would like to know so that I can meet their standard as a new
FAI judge.

Thanks,

Jim

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________________________________

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
schroetere at bellsouth.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:59 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 FAI

Sounds like a good idea, Vince. We have at least a couple of east facing
fields that we have to wait for the sun to vacate the box.

I agree with Gary. Usually I see my scores and I think it's more than I
would have given myself. Judging is, to me, usually a tough thing to do
and be correct. Things happen so quickly.

I absolutely agree with Jim that we all, as judges, need to be as fair
as possible, regardless of the pilot flying. I'm not sure that I
understand what you are saying with these statements...

7. Normalization does its part to compare flyers, judges should not use
RAW scores as the primary "real-time" comparative force while in the
process of judging.  RAW scores should be independent of anyone entered
in the contest or other factors. 

and 1. It is not the responsibility of a judge to use "real-time" RAW
score evaluations from maneuver to maneuver (against previous or future
flights) to ensure an "order" is reached, or room is left at the top
(.... If this is happening....) 

I too want to leave a contest with a good feeling. This weekend as an
example, I felt pretty good about finishing third. I flew fairly well,
but not near as good as Joe and John. Anyway, please clarify what you
are saying in the above statements. I'm not trying to be a smart &**, I
just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.

Thanks,

Emory

	-------------- Original message from vicenterc at comcast.net:
-------------- 

	I think there is one possible solution: just more judging
clinics and training.  In the last contest at central Kansas,  one good
friend and experience pilot suggested that we should have judging
clinics when we are waiting for the sun get out of the way.  In our
area, we usually wait until 11:00 AM to start the contest.  We know that
pattern flyers are usually early birds.  We could have judging clinics
between 9-10:30 AM both days.  This is 3 hours of training in one
weekend.  I know that this is not necessarily the case for other
districts or fields or when the contest is very well attended.  I will
say that this clinics are very easy to implement when we have less than
~20 pilots registered.  However, if there are more than 20 pilots just
loosing a round to accommodate the judging clinic won't be a big
problem.

	Regards,

	--
	Vicente "Vince" Bortone

		-------------- Original message -------------- 
		From: "Courtney, Gary Ray" <grcourtney at tva.gov> 

________________________________

		From: Courtney, Gary Ray 
		Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7:07 AM
		To: 'schroetere'
		Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 FAI

		yes! 

		All I can hope for is to please my hardest critic and
judge (myself) because he truly knows what's being done in the
air...That's why I very rarely look at the score sheets and standings
they are always 4 or 5 points higher than I would give myself. It's like
x-mas every contest. 

		The ? mark was referring to the fact that I don't have a
solution, Judging is not ever 100% perfect(human factor) it is what it
is accept it or pull your hair out over it.

		Having judged FAI on rare occasions, I can say it's not
very enjoyable because the pressure I put on myself to try to be fair
and consistent is considerable. just to many elements for my feeble
brain to process...

		Gary

________________________________

		From: schroetere [mailto:schroetere at bellsouth.net] 
		Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:33 AM
		To: Courtney, Gary Ray
		Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 FAI

		I don't know, Jim started it and I just want to see
where it goes. Did you read his email below?

			----- Original Message ----- 

			From: Courtney, Gary Ray
<mailto:grcourtney at tva.gov>  

			To: NSRCA Mailing List
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

			Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7:07 AM

			Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 FAI

			?

			gary

________________________________

			From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
schroetere
			Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 5:20 AM
			To: NSRCA Mailing List
			Cc: Jim Woodward
			Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 FAI

			 Hey Jim, 

			I debated with myself to respond to you or the
list. But, since you brought this up here, I'd like to hear some more
from you and others as well.

			I know that you are not alone in your
frustration. We talked about this mid-season at length. I'm just not
sure what can be done to "fix" judging differences. When it comes down
to it, we are all human. Until we get some sort of camera hooked up to a
computer, we will never have perfect judging. Even then, I'm sure
someone will complain that the software algorithm that calculates the
score isn't correct. All we as judges can do is sit down in the chair
and do our best. Some times we get it right and some times we don't. It
will never be better than that (my opinion).

			I hate to see that you are feeling so beaten
down that you feel a class switch is the only way to fix it. I have no
doubt that you will have great success in Masters if that is what you
choose. To me, all the guys flying FAI in our district should be there.
You are all fantastic pilots.

			So, what needs to be fixed in your opinion and
how should this be done? 

			Thanks, Emory

				----- Original Message ----- 

				From: Woodward, Jim
<mailto:jim.woodward at baesystems.com>  

				To: NSRCA Mailing List
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

				Cc: McLaughlin, Ryan (FRS.JAX)
<mailto:ryan_mclaughlin at ml.com>  ; NSRCA District III
<mailto:dist3 at nsrca.org>  ; Joseph Walker <mailto:JWalker at ponikvar.com>

				Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:43 PM

				Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] D3
Championship

				It is my opinion that abject failure to
score FAI rounds and standings accurately has been consistently
occurring in District 3, punctuated by the final two contests of 2007
(JAX and D3 Champs).  Recognizing these inequities in FAI, I look
forward to joining the Masters class for the 2008 season beginning with
the Tangerine.  

				Copied from www.dictionary.com
<http://www.dictionary.com/>    Abject: 

				-adjective 

1.

utterly hopeless, miserable, humiliating, or wretched: abject poverty. 

2.

contemptible; despicable; base-spirited: an abject coward. 

3.

shamelessly servile; slavish. 

4.

Obsolete. cast aside. 

				Thank You,

				Jim W.

________________________________

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