[NSRCA-discussion] D3 FAI

Tue Oct 16 06:58:49 AKDT 2007

Sounds like a good idea, Vince. We have at least a couple of east facing fields that we have to wait for the sun to vacate the box.

I agree with Gary. Usually I see my scores and I think it's more than I would have given myself. Judging is, to me, usually a tough thing to do and be correct. Things happen so quickly.

I absolutely agree with Jim that we all, as judges, need to be as fair as possible, regardless of the pilot flying. I'm not sure that I understand what you are saying with these statements...

7. Normalization does its part to compare flyers, judges should not use RAW scores as the primary “real-time” comparative force while in the process of judging.  RAW scores should be independent of anyone entered in the contest or other factors. 

and 1. It is not the responsibility of a judge to use “real-time” RAW score evaluations from maneuver to maneuver (against previous or future flights) to ensure an “order” is reached, or room is left at the top (…. If this is happening….) 

I too want to leave a contest with a good feeling. This weekend as an example, I felt pretty good about finishing third. I flew fairly well, but not near as good as Joe and John. Anyway, please clarify what you are saying in the above statements. I'm not trying to be a smart &**, I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.

Thanks,
Emory

-------------- Original message from vicenterc at comcast.net: -------------- 

I think there is one possible solution: just more judging clinics and training.  In the last contest at central Kansas,  one good friend and experience pilot suggested that we should have judging clinics when we are waiting for the sun get out of the way.  In our area, we usually wait until 11:00 AM to start the contest.  We know that pattern flyers are usually early birds.  We could have judging clinics between 9-10:30 AM both days.  This is 3 hours of training in one weekend.  I know that this is not necessarily the case for other districts or fields or when the contest is very well attended.  I will say that this clinics are very easy to implement when we have less than ~20 pilots registered.  However, if there are more than 20 pilots just loosing a round to accommodate the judging clinic won't be a big problem.

Regards,

--
Vicente "Vince" Bortone

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Courtney, Gary Ray" <grcourtney at tva.gov> 

From: Courtney, Gary Ray 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7:07 AM
To: 'schroetere'
Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 FAI

yes! 

All I can hope for is to please my hardest critic and judge (myself) because he truly knows what's being done in the air...That's why I very rarely look at the score sheets and standings they are always 4 or 5 points higher than I would give myself. It's like x-mas every contest. 

The ? mark was referring to the fact that I don't have a solution, Judging is not ever 100% perfect(human factor) it is what it is accept it or pull your hair out over it.

Having judged FAI on rare occasions, I can say it's not very enjoyable because the pressure I put on myself to try to be fair and consistent is considerable. just to many elements for my feeble brain to process...

Gary

From: schroetere [mailto:schroetere at bellsouth.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:33 AM
To: Courtney, Gary Ray
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 FAI

I don't know, Jim started it and I just want to see where it goes. Did you read his email below?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Courtney, Gary Ray 
To: NSRCA Mailing List 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 FAI

?

gary

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of schroetere
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 5:20 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Cc: Jim Woodward
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 FAI

 Hey Jim, 
I debated with myself to respond to you or the list. But, since you brought this up here, I'd like to hear some more from you and others as well.
I know that you are not alone in your frustration. We talked about this mid-season at length. I'm just not sure what can be done to "fix" judging differences. When it comes down to it, we are all human. Until we get some sort of camera hooked up to a computer, we will never have perfect judging. Even then, I'm sure someone will complain that the software algorithm that calculates the score isn't correct. All we as judges can do is sit down in the chair and do our best. Some times we get it right and some times we don't. It will never be better than that (my opinion).
I hate to see that you are feeling so beaten down that you feel a class switch is the only way to fix it. I have no doubt that you will have great success in Masters if that is what you choose. To me, all the guys flying FAI in our district should be there. You are all fantastic pilots.
So, what needs to be fixed in your opinion and how should this be done? 
Thanks, Emory
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Woodward, Jim 
To: NSRCA Mailing List 
Cc: McLaughlin, Ryan (FRS.JAX) ; NSRCA District III ; Joseph Walker 
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 Championship

It is my opinion that abject failure to score FAI rounds and standings accurately has been consistently occurring in District 3, punctuated by the final two contests of 2007 (JAX and D3 Champs).  Recognizing these inequities in FAI, I look forward to joining the Masters class for the 2008 season beginning with the Tangerine.  
Copied from www.dictionary.com   Abject: 
–adjective 
1.utterly hopeless, miserable, humiliating, or wretched: abject poverty. 

2.contemptible; despicable; base-spirited: an abject coward. 

3.shamelessly servile; slavish. 

4.Obsolete. cast aside. 

Thank You,
Jim W.

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

__________ NOD32 2519 (20070910) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20071016/24975df0/attachment-0001.html 