[NSRCA-discussion] Rudder

Wed Oct 10 07:15:16 AKDT 2007

I know that Bill didn't mean what he wrote....he flew full scale and knows what happens when you run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas all at the same time. The plane would indeed have a vector in?the outlined?scenario. It would generate zero lift and fall from the sky. The vector is down. (VBG)

?

MattK

?

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Del K. Rykert

Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:39 PM

To: NSRCA Mailing List

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder

?

I still find it amazing after all these years it is people with full scale experience that rarely have?a problem with the concept Bill just mentioned.

?

??? Del 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: billglaze 

To: NSRCA Mailing List 

Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 3:28 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder

?

Correct.? The airplane does NOT know the wind is blowing.? If we were moving in the same direction/velocity the wind is moving, (thus matching the airplane direction/velocity), the airplane would have no vector.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Terry Beachler 

To: NSRCA Mailing List 

Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:59 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder

?

J & B

Weather vane implies the wind blowing the tail away from and the nose into the wind which would be desirable for (self)correcting for crosswind. This would imply that an airplane on a cross country flight would self correct into a crosswind, no crab necessary. Or the reverse, pilot would have to hold rudder for a couple of hours on a cross country flight. Talk about a way to induce asymmetrical leg muscles...wow!

Rudder is used to point the noise into the wind i.e. to induce crab. Full scale pilots make a small coordinated turn into the wind to create crab angle and the desired ground track. I think I read in some pattern stuff that pattern pilots can induce crab and it either presents better to a judge or they can sneak the crab in a way not so easily detected by the judge.? Weathervaning would only happen on the ground with a taildragger, usually the beginning of a ground loop. Or with the airplane on a pylon on the vertical axis, just like a weathervane.

Crab angle and track apply here. Crosswind acts upon the whole airplane in flight, not just the tail surface. If we turn this whole situation 90 degrees and fly into a headwind and pull up, the airplane would flop over on its back because of the greater exposed surface of the wing area. The wing would have a greater weathervane effect. But it does not work thataway.

Bob and I have been having fun with this one for a while.

Terry Beachler

At 13:01 10/9/2007, you wrote:

weathervane by cause of wind. If you straighten the plane out to look vertical, the track (actual line drawn) will move with the wind and not be vertical and be cause for a downgrade. Someone has a clip from the rule book covering all parts of this.

?

Regards,

Jason

www.jasonshulman.com

www.shulmanaviation.com

www.composite-arf.com 

-----Original Message-----

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Terry Beachler

Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:53 PM

To: NSRCA Mailing List

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder

Do you mean crab (induce by rudder) or weathervane as if the wind is applying a force upon the tail and causing a turn toward the wind about the vertical axis.

Terryb

At 12:10 10/9/2007, you wrote:

Hi Bob,

? 

The airplane should weathervane into the wind, as long as the track of the plane is straight (track- actual line/path of the plane). 

? 

Regards,

Jason

www.jasonshulman.com

www.shulmanaviation.com

www.composite-arf.com 

-----Original Message----- 

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Bob Wilson 

Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:53 AM 

To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 

Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder

Some great ideas. 

I'm going to give the 60-70% rudder expo a shot and see how it works.

I'd like to do the stall turns on low rate, as Jason reccommends, but when stall turning into the wind my practice airplane will not go vertical (on the downline) unless I have high rates (it weathervanes slightly towards the wind). 

I also liked John Pavlick's recommendation on the two consecutive rolls.? I'm probably being too anal in coordinating rudder, aileron and elevator because I always seem to run out of room.

So much to learn and the damn winter is coming!

Thanks guys,

Bob Wilson

_______________________________________________

NSRCA-discussion mailing list

NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org

http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition. 

Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.6/1059 - Release Date: 10/9/2007 08:44

?

_______________________________________________

NSRCA-discussion mailing list

NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org

http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition. 

Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.6/1059 - Release Date: 10/9/2007 08:44

_______________________________________________

NSRCA-discussion mailing list

NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org

http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________

NSRCA-discussion mailing list

NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org

http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________

NSRCA-discussion mailing list

NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org

http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________

NSRCA-discussion mailing list

NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org

http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________  NSRCA-discussion mailing list  NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org  http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion  

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20071010/98de049c/attachment.html 