<div><SPAN contentEditable=false style="DISPLAY: inline-block"></SPAN>I know that Bill didn't mean what he wrote....he flew full scale and knows what happens when you run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas all at the same time. The plane would indeed have a vector in the outlined scenario. It would generate zero lift and fall from the sky. The vector is down. (VBG)</div>
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<div>MattK</div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Del K. Rykert<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:39 PM<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I still find it amazing after all these years it is people with full scale experience that rarely have a problem with the concept Bill just mentioned.</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Del </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=billglaze@bellsouth.net href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net">billglaze</A> </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Tuesday, October 09, 2007 3:28 PM</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Correct. The airplane does NOT know the wind is blowing. If we were moving in the same direction/velocity the wind is moving, (thus matching the airplane direction/velocity), the airplane would have no vector.</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message ----- </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=terryb@beachlers.com href="mailto:terryb@beachlers.com">Terry Beachler</A> </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:59 PM</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br>
J & B<br>
Weather vane implies the wind blowing the tail away from and the nose into the wind which would be desirable for (self)correcting for crosswind. This would imply that an airplane on a cross country flight would self correct into a crosswind, no crab necessary. Or the reverse, pilot would have to hold rudder for a couple of hours on a cross country flight. Talk about a way to induce asymmetrical leg muscles...wow!<br>
<br>
Rudder is used to point the noise into the wind i.e. to induce crab. Full scale pilots make a small coordinated turn into the wind to create crab angle and the desired ground track. I think I read in some pattern stuff that pattern pilots can induce crab and it either presents better to a judge or they can sneak the crab in a way not so easily detected by the judge. Weathervaning would only happen on the ground with a taildragger, usually the beginning of a ground loop. Or with the airplane on a pylon on the vertical axis, just like a weathervane.<br>
<br>
Crab angle and track apply here. Crosswind acts upon the whole airplane in flight, not just the tail surface. If we turn this whole situation 90 degrees and fly into a headwind and pull up, the airplane would flop over on its back because of the greater exposed surface of the wing area. The wing would have a greater weathervane effect. But it does not work thataway.<br>
<br>
Bob and I have been having fun with this one for a while.<br>
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Terry Beachler<br>
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At 13:01 10/9/2007, you wrote:<br>
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<br>
</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">weathervane by cause of wind. If you straighten the plane out to look vertical, the track (actual line drawn) will move with the wind and not be vertical and be cause for a downgrade. Someone has a clip from the rule book covering all parts of this.<br>
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<FONT size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,<br>
Jason<br>
<A href="http://www.jasonshulman.com/" target=_blank>www.jasonshulman.com</A><br>
<A href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/" target=_blank>www.shulmanaviation.com</A><br>
<A href="http://www.composite-arf.com/" target=_blank>www.composite-arf.com</A></SPAN></FONT> </div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]On Behalf Of Terry Beachler</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:53 PM</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">To: NSRCA Mailing List</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Do you mean crab (induce by rudder) or weathervane as if the wind is applying a force upon the tail and causing a turn toward the wind about the vertical axis.</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Terryb</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">At 12:10 10/9/2007, you wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi Bob,</SPAN></FONT></div>
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</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The airplane should weathervane into the wind, as long as the track of the plane is straight (track- actual line/path of the plane). </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<br>
</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Jason</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="http://www.jasonshulman.com/" target=_blank>www.jasonshulman.com</A></SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/" target=_blank>www.shulmanaviation.com</A></SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="http://www.composite-arf.com/" target=_blank>www.composite-arf.com</A></SPAN></FONT> </div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message----- </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [ <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5DOn">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On</A> Behalf Of Bob Wilson </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:53 AM </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">To: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A> </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Some great ideas. </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I'm going to give the 60-70% rudder expo a shot and see how it works.</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I'd like to do the stall turns on low rate, as Jason reccommends, but when stall turning into the wind my practice airplane will not go vertical (on the downline) unless I have high rates (it weathervanes slightly towards the wind). </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I also liked John Pavlick's recommendation on the two consecutive rolls. I'm probably being too anal in coordinating rudder, aileron and elevator because I always seem to run out of room.</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">So much to learn and the damn winter is coming!</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thanks guys,</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bob Wilson</SPAN></FONT></div>
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