[NSRCA-discussion] Rudder

Bob Wilson wilsorc at gmail.com
Wed Oct 10 05:20:01 AKDT 2007


Wow, and this was just an innocent question about a stall turn!
Now, as I pull vertical for the stall turn maneuver, in a cross wind, my
mind is going to internally hemorrhage trying to sort out who said what:)


On 10/10/07, Bob Richards <bob at toprudder.com> wrote:
>
> No, it depends on how fast it is coming down. :-)
>
> *Ken Thompson <mrandmrst at comcast.net>* wrote:
>
> Wild guess...there is none ;-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Kurt Bozarth <kurt at bozarthhomes.com>
> *To:* 'NSRCA Mailing List' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:49 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder
>
>
>  Guess what the wind chill factor is when riding in a hot air balloon?
>
> Kurt
>
>  ------------------------------
>  *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:
> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Del K. Rykert
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:39 PM
> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder
>
>  I still find it amazing after all these years it is people with full
> scale experience that rarely have a problem with the concept Bill just
> mentioned.
>
>      Del
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  *From:* billglaze <billglaze at bellsouth.net>
>  *To:* NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>  *Sent:* Tuesday, October 09, 2007 3:28 PM
>  *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder
>
>  Correct.  The airplane does NOT know the wind is blowing.  If we were
> moving in the same direction/velocity the wind is moving, (thus matching the
> airplane direction/velocity), the airplane would have no vector.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  *From:* Terry Beachler <terryb at beachlers.com>
>  *To:* NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>  *Sent:* Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:59 PM
>  *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder
>
>
> J & B
> Weather vane implies the wind blowing the tail away from and the nose into
> the wind which would be desirable for (self)correcting for crosswind. This
> would imply that an airplane on a cross country flight would self correct
> into a crosswind, no crab necessary. Or the reverse, pilot would have to
> hold rudder for a couple of hours on a cross country flight. Talk about a
> way to induce asymmetrical leg muscles...wow!
>
> Rudder is used to point the noise into the wind i.e. to induce crab. Full
> scale pilots make a small coordinated turn into the wind to create crab
> angle and the desired ground track. I think I read in some pattern stuff
> that pattern pilots can induce crab and it either presents better to a judge
> or they can sneak the crab in a way not so easily detected by the judge.
> Weathervaning would only happen on the ground with a taildragger, usually
> the beginning of a ground loop. Or with the airplane on a pylon on the
> vertical axis, just like a weathervane.
>
> Crab angle and track apply here. Crosswind acts upon the whole airplane in
> flight, not just the tail surface. If we turn this whole situation 90
> degrees and fly into a headwind and pull up, the airplane would flop over on
> its back because of the greater exposed surface of the wing area. The wing
> would have a greater weathervane effect. But it does not work thataway.
>
> Bob and I have been having fun with this one for a while.
>
> Terry Beachler
>
> At 13:01 10/9/2007, you wrote:
>
>
> weathervane by cause of wind. If you straighten the plane out to look
> vertical, the track (actual line drawn) will move with the wind and not be
> vertical and be cause for a downgrade. Someone has a clip from the rule book
> covering all parts of this.
>
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>]On
> Behalf Of Terry Beachler
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:53 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder
> Do you mean crab (induce by rudder) or weathervane as if the wind is
> applying a force upon the tail and causing a turn toward the wind about the
> vertical axis.
> Terryb
> At 12:10 10/9/2007, you wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
>
> The airplane should weathervane into the wind, as long as the track of the
> plane is straight (track- actual line/path of the plane).
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [
> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org%5DOn>Behalf Of Bob Wilson
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:53 AM
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder
> Some great ideas.
> I'm going to give the 60-70% rudder expo a shot and see how it works.
> I'd like to do the stall turns on low rate, as Jason reccommends, but when
> stall turning into the wind my practice airplane will not go vertical (on
> the downline) unless I have high rates (it weathervanes slightly towards the
> wind).
> I also liked John Pavlick's recommendation on the two consecutive rolls.
> I'm probably being too anal in coordinating rudder, aileron and elevator
> because I always seem to run out of room.
> So much to learn and the damn winter is coming!
> Thanks guys,
> Bob Wilson
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.6/1059 - Release Date: 10/9/2007
> 08:44
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.6/1059 - Release Date: 10/9/2007
> 08:44
>  ------------------------------
>  _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>  ------------------------------
>  _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>  ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20071010/d7d591f0/attachment-0001.html 


More information about the NSRCA-discussion mailing list