[NSRCA-discussion] Two rolls WAS RE: Rudder Dual Rate

Tue Oct 9 07:00:47 AKDT 2007

Thanks John you've helped much more than you imagine.

I've been told that same advice all year but was too hardheaded to stop
trying. I did feel like aileron-elevator only was a copout and I was
determined to do it coordinated. But your explanation of lack of time and
getting hurried perfectly describes my biggest problem causing my biggest
screw ups. All this time I hadn't thought of it as NOT having time to do a
coordinated roll but it is simply that. Any time I needed to change my
timing( to do a faster or slower roll to try & center it) I'd really miss
either the rudder  or elevator input and get some really scary moments.

Now adding rudder on the half rolls reversed is something I had not thought
of, but I'll do it.

Thanks again

Eddie

  _____  

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:43 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder Dual Rate

Well try doing them so that you don't need to use the rudder! Plenty of time
to learn that later when you have to do REAL slow rolls. Unless you fly
really far out you have to do the 2 rolls pretty quick so that you don't
miss center and / or rush the next maneuver and that makes it hard to
integrate rudder. I know this sounds like a copout / shortcut / whatever but
don't kill yourself trying to do something that isn't necessary. The goal is
two clean looking rolls with constant rate, centered properly. That's about
it. You're just opening yourself up to more things that can go wrong. If you
must use the rudder in your rolls do it on the half rolls reversed. That
looks pretty if you add top rudder and you have the room to do it without
being rushed. Just don't forget to apply same-direction rudder both times.
<LOL>

John Pavlick
2006 D1 402 District Champion

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Winston <mailto:perkinsrx at centurytel.net>  E Batchelor 

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:43 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder Dual Rate

I've been flying Int for 2 years and STRUGGLING with the 2 rolls(as anyone
who's seen me fly knows). AT my last contest I realized I had been leaving
my Rudder on high rates the entire flight. Amazingly enough on low rate I
didn't over control the rudder input in the rolls( yes I have been
determined to do them integrated rudder-elevator-aileron)

Now my point  - when I kept the rudder on low rates for the entire flight I
also did better stall turns,  Go figure

Eddie

----- Original Message ----- 

From: JShulman <mailto:jshulman at cfl.rr.com>  

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:40 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder Dual Rate

The high rate rudder with high expo will work, until you get into snaps.
Then you might switch into high rate aileron with high expo and low rate
rudder and elevator set-up. Switching for a stall turn seems less stressful
than for a snap. But that's looking ahead.

I have flown both the Sportsman and Intermediate with low rates on all
surfaces. The "trick" to the stall turn on low rate is to NOT wait until the
last minute to start adding rudder. I like to tell everyone it's like adding
rudder like you would follow an expo curve. Little, little more, little more
and then full (only when the plane will not fly over the top). It takes a
bit of getting used to, but it works, all the way through to FAI also. I do
have a high rate/high expo rudder set-up for rolling circles/loops (along
with low rate aileron for 1 and 2 rollers) and those "O S" stall turns. I
prefer the low rates on rudder and elevator cause now I don't have to flip
switches for snaps.

But ultimately it comes down to what YOU feel comfortable doing. After some
practice, the rudder switch should become a motion rather than a thought.

Regards,
Jason
www.jasonshulman.com
www.shulmanaviation.com
www.composite-arf.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Bob Wilson
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 3:56 PM
To: NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder Dual Rate

I'm working on the Intermediate pattern and have got a question on dual
rates.

Except for the stall turns I like to keep the rudder on a lower rate...this
keeps me from over-controlling direction changes.

On the two stall turn maneuvers, however,  I flip it to high rate, but then
back again as soon as the maneuver is over.

Just curious if anyone else does this, and, in fact, does anyone alternate
between low and high rates while flying their respective sequences?  Or, am
I generating a bad habit?

  _____  

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