[NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1

Tue May 1 07:12:27 AKDT 2007

RE charging to use the National Flying Site...

I suggest that if a club/SIG uses it for an event that there be some "Reservation Fee" to give them exclusive use of one of the flying areas on the property for that event.

For an AMA member showing up and wanting to use the site to just be able to say "I flew at the National Flying Site"... I would oppose charging.  Direct them to whichever area is appropriate (not reserved for some event) and tell them what frequency sharing plan is in effect for that flying site. (assuming they are flying RC... since someone might show up with a FF or CL model)

But then... someone just showing up and wanting to fly would have to understand that if the flying areas (for his/her type model) are all reserved for events... SORRY. (as in ... don't expect to show up durring the 6 weeks of the NATS and find any "open" flying available)

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tony Stillman 
  To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 8:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1

  Joe:
  It was directed to "break even" several years ago.  The problem is that HQ just didn't have a good plan on how to track all the costs.  Temp helpers, staff that already works full-time for AMA working on Nats stuff, etc.  It is more complex than I realized when I first got on the EC.  That is being corrected now, with the help of our new Executive Director.  He wants all the departments to give him good data.  I agree that this should have been fixed a long time ago.  I can't do anything about that, but I am on the EC now and can do something.  That is what I am trying to do now.

  HQ has not charged other AMA clubs or groups a fee for using the site.  However, I do believe that will change.  Tents, chairs and equipment will be rented to those groups that use the site as well.  It was an issue of an AMA member being charged for using the site that his/her dues paid for.  HQ didn't think that would sit well with very many members.

  Tony Stillman, President

  Radio South

  3702 N. Pace Blvd

  Pensacola, FL 32505

  1-800-962-7802

  www.radiosouthrc.com

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  From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski
  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:51 PM
  To: NSRCA Mailing List
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1

  Another question. Was the Nats EVER profitable in the past(post Navy era)?

  If it wasn't maybe it should have been fixed a long time ago and there wouldn't be this discussion. If it was profitable, I wouldn't mind seeing what the net gain or loss over the years has been.

  Yet another question. Are other special events/competitions outside of the Nats at Muncie assessed some sort of users fee to offset operational costs(if any)?

  FYI. I'm for adding Sportsman next year, provided there is a minimum of 10 entrants. If not, refund or give those who entered the option to fly Intermediate. Sounds fair to me. Obviously, this year is a little too late.

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  From: jlachow at hotmail.com
  To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
  Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:50:11 -0400
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1

  To add to this. We need hard numbers. How many entrants does it take on a given day or event for the AMA to break even on cost. Just maybe some events don't pay their fair share as compared to others. 

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  From: jlachow at hotmail.com
  To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
  Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:40:58 -0400
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1

  Well if the Nats are in the red then there is a need to increase the number of attendees and/or increase the entry fee not the number of days. Wasn't this years entry fee increased?<g> Maybe all the SIGS need to encourage more of their people to attend or lose it. There was a time when pattern had over 150 plus attendees. There are some events that only have a handful of people involved. Maybe some of those small events need to be discontinued as part of the Nats.

  Tony, how much is in the red anyway? hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of dollars?

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  From: tony at radiosouthrc.com
  To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
  Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:09:32 -0500
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1

  Ok.. .you asked for a need. here it is..

  The Executive Council is always pressed by sport fliers as to why funds should be spent on less than 1% of the membership to allow for a site for a Nats, as well as the staff support and equipment support required to run these events.  The Nats takes up 6 weeks of prime flying time for Muncie.  Other groups would like to use that time for events as well.  The Nats operates in the red every year.  

  So, if we reduced the number of days required to have a Nats, that would reduce costs as well.  How do we reduce the number of days required to run the pattern Nats?  Do we just increase the entry fee to take care of all of the costs so the sport fliers can then be told that the competition pilots "pay their own way"?  Do we (the EC) just ignore them and hope they go away?

  I am a BIG fan of competition and the Nats.  However, I can tell all of you that many on the EC don't give a rat's behind about competition or the Nats.  I am trying to represent competition and how important it has been in the past and will be in the future.  

  So, how does NSRCA handle it if we get cut to a 2-day even for the Pattern Nats?

  Tony Stillman, President

  Radio South

  3702 N. Pace Blvd

  Pensacola, FL 32505

  1-800-962-7802

  www.radiosouthrc.com

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  From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hester
  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:37 PM
  To: NSRCA Mailing List
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1

  ok, then one more:

  if it ain't broke, why fix it? Is there some underlying problem that we aren't aware of? I'm just not seeing the need I guess. if it were a vote, I'd definitely vote NOT to have to qualify for the Nats. 

  -Mike

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Tony Stillman 

    To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' 

    Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:07 PM

    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1

    John:
    I realize that this is a different approach and that there are lots of opinions.  That is all I am asking for.

    Tony Stillman, President

    Radio South

    3702 N. Pace Blvd

    Pensacola, FL 32505

    1-800-962-7802

    www.radiosouthrc.com

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    From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Ferrell
    Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:32 AM
    To: NSRCA Mailing List
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1

    Flame suit on, cannons loaded and ready...

    If you really want a good answer, ask the guys who are competing at Muncie this year.

    If you want to justify a position already decided, survey the population that will give you the answer you want!

    No offense intended.

    Why would you want to curtail the most successful segment of the Nats? Without the Nats, there is little point in maintaining Muncie. 

    (BTW, considering the source, I think you are shopping for ammunition rather than an argument!)

    John Ferrell    W8CCW
    "Life is easier if you learn to plow 
           around the stumps"
    http://DixieNC.US

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Tony Stillman 

      To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' 

      Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:40 AM

      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1

      Buddy:
      As I said at the beginning of this discussion thread, I am involved with a total NATS review.  We are talking about all of the NATS, nothing is too sacred to be up for discussion.

      One question I always had is why it the NATS an open event?  Most all sports NATIONAL championships require you to qualify.  With so many people complaining that the AMA NATS is 6-weeks long, this was brought up as a way to shorten the event.  It also would elevate the status of the NATS.  I don't see how this would reduce participation at the local level.  It may actually increase it!

      Keep in mind that this is just DISCUSSION!!!  Don't get all bent out of shape because we are talking about it.

      Tony Stillman, President

      Radio South

      3702 N. Pace Blvd

      Pensacola, FL 32505

      1-800-962-7802

      www.radiosouthrc.com

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      From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of BUDDYonRC at aol.com
      Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 6:56 PM
      To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rule 8.1.1

      I have a question

      Why all of a sudden are you talking about special requirements needed for 

      Nat's entry.

      My take on this, is if this is done we will reduce participation. I may be wrong but if I am not how is this going to help pattern and the NSRCA?

      I think it will be the first step toward a further reduction in membership and a step toward an all professional Nat's 

      Second question

      Tony are you pushing this idea for real?  

      Buddy 

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