[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question

Thu Mar 1 09:08:19 AKST 2007

Harrumph!

Dean Pappas
Sr. Design Engineer
Kodeos Communications
111 Corporate Blvd.
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
(908) 222-7817 phone
(908) 222-2392 fax
d.pappas at kodeos.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
jonlowe at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 11:36 AM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question

I take the apporach that if I can't see an element clearly, it must not 
be there.  If I find myself asking "do I give him the benefit of the 
doubt?", I downgrade.

I saw some FIA pilots doing loops with integrated 4 points last year, 
in which I couldn't see distinct points (I saw them slow down, but not 
stop rolling), and downgraded severely because of it.  A couple asked 
me about it.  I said, that if I can't see a distinct point, it must not 
be there.  They fixed it in subsequent flights.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: d.pappas at kodeos.com
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Sent: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question

Hi Fred,
There is another whole aspect to the judging world!
We always discuss WHAT to judge ... and we should.

HOW to judge gets stickier, and I have seen, over the years, a handful 
of pilots score
remarkably well by utilizing flying styles that rush both maneuver 
elements and the judges.

We always tend to blame ourselves if we can't see what is supposed to 
be there, rather than blaming others.
That is civilized behavior: people who start out  by assuming the 
opposite are called sociopaths.
Well, a good judge is maybe just a little bit sociopathic. (temporary 
insanity?)
Let me go back to Matt K.'s statement of two or so days ago, when he
said that the onus is on the pilot to clearly demonstrate the good 
stuff to the judge,
and not on the judge to pick out the good stuff in the midst of a poor 
presentation.
You won't find this explicitly in any rule book, but common sense tells 
us that a real workman
proudly displays his good work so that it can best be admired, rather 
than hiding it in the middle of confusion.
If you were judging a debate, would you have to give someone the 
benefit of the doubt because they mumbled? Heck NO!
The mumbler gets downgraded.
Rushing is like mumbling ...come to think of it it isn't like mumbling, 
it is aero-mumbling.

Off my soapbox,
Dean

Dean Pappas
Sr. Design Engineer
Kodeos Communications
111 Corporate Blvd.
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
(908) 222-7817 phone
(908) 222-2392 fax
d.pappas at kodeos.com

-----Original Message-----
 From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Fred Huber
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 9:46 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question

I caught all kinds of flack at  judging training session for 
downgrading because a VERY well known pilit did a blazing fast 
4-point....

All other judge trainees said 10... I said 0... the points weren't full 
stops.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Maurice
To: randy10926 at comtekmail.com ; 'NSRCA Mailing List'
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question

If the points are so fast as to make it indiscernible what angle they 
occurred at, then I would tend to doubt whether the point occurred at 
all. Score 0. It is the pilot’s responsibility to present the maneuver 
in such a manner to demonstrate that the maneuver has in fact been done 
according to the rules. I sincerely doubt that a 4 point can be done in 
1.25 seconds with defined stops in the roll every 90 degrees. But it 
remains that if, as a judge, you cannot clearly see the relevant 
elements of any maneuver being performed, then you should assume that 
IT HAS NOT been performed. The elements must be demonstrated not 
assumed.

Don Ramsey, can you clarify?

Gene Maurice
gene.maurice at sgmservice.com
Plano, TX
AMA 3408, NSRCA 877

--------

 From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Glenn 
Hatfield
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:24 AM
To: nsrca-discuss list
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Question

Ok time to get back to our favorite list questions.

This comes from a real life judging problem.  The question is about the 
4-point roll.  This what I am seeing.  A 4 point roll that takes less 
than 1.25 second to complete.  You can see 4 very short pauses.  The 
manever appears to be centered.  I see no change in height or coming in 
or out.  It appears to be between 150M and 175M.  But the pauses are so 
short that I cannot really tell if the rolls between pauses are 90 
degrees.  So I cannot see what the 1 point per 15 degree down grade 
should be.

What would you do?

Randy

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