[NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence for 2009/2010

Fred Huber fhhuber at clearwire.net
Fri Jul 27 21:51:22 AKDT 2007


I'll let someone else try to explain it better... but to me... it all adds 
up as doable.

Someone said something about having the turnaround prior to the 8 point end 
high.... (there's a hint there...)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <verne at twmi.rr.com>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence for 2009/2010


> Fred,
> Didn't ignore anything. If you wanted a response on whether or not it's
> okay for the 45 down to come back over the previous maneuver, then the
> answer is yes, it's okay. That's not where the problem is. Yes I'm
> aware it's not a half REVERSE cuban. The problem is on the back side of
> the 5/8 loop or the deepest point of the box if you prefer because the
> loop has to be big enough to accommodate the 2 of 2 on the 45 downline.
> Big loop equals long downline, small loop equals short downline, either
> of which is heading toward the ground with two half rolls to be flown
> within it. In short, the problem is attaching a looping maneuver to the
> end of long rolling maneuver.
>
> Verne
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net>
> Date: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:34 am
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence for 2009/2010
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
>> Proposed Masters Sequence for 2009/2010and... you ignored
>> everthing in my post...
>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>  From: Verne Koester
>>  To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>  Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:37 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence for
>> 2009/2010
>>
>>  Fred,
>>  A half cuban starts with a half loop, then a 45 down line. If
>> you wait until you're near the end of the box to pull into the
>> half loop, the back tangent of the loop will be way out of the
>> box. Compounding the problem is the fact that it calls for two of
>> a two point roll which must be centered on the 45 downline. We
>> currently do the same maneuver in the existing Masters schedule.
>> If you draw an honest 45 degree line out of the half loop, you've
>> got to make sure the half loop is big enough to create a 45 degree
>> downline long enough to accommodate the 2 half rolls or you'll end
>> up very low and very uncomfortable and the judges will have a hard
>> time seeing the bottom of the next maneuver. My experience with
>> the current schedule says that this maneuver uses roughly 1/4 of
>> the box. Waiting for a quarter of the box prior to the start of
>> the 8 point so it will be centered means you're squeezing an 8
>> point roll into roughly 1/2 of the box, give or take a little. I'm
>> sure it's possible, but it'll be fast and ugly and that's under
>> ideal conditions. Show me a previous schedule in FAI that didn't
>> use tall, vertically-oriented maneuvers on both ends of an 8
>> point, and I'll be quiet.
>>
>>  Verne
>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>    From: Fred Huber
>>    To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>    Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:45 PM
>>    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence for
>> 2009/2010
>>
>>    Its a half cuban (not reversed...) you can be near end of box
>> before the pull... (1 large loop radius from end)
>>
>>    If its a reverse... THEN its definitely a squeese for the 8
>> point.
>>
>>    This "approach" might have a point or two of the 8 point under
>> the 45 drawn in the half cuban...  But it lets you use ALMOST 1/2
>> a box for the 1/2 cuban...  You can size the 5/8 loop and time the
>> 2/2 to end up at a higher or lower altitude.
>>
>>    The question then becomes.... is it a downgrade to have the
>> maneuvers come out that way?  There can easilly be a straight
>> segment after the 8th point before the pull  and have the result I
>> described.
>>    Line lengths and loop radius (where not required to be equal
>> to a different length/radius) are not downgrades....
>>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>      From: Verne Koester
>>      To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>      Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:37 PM
>>      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence
>> for 2009/2010
>>
>>
>>      Rex,
>>      The half cuban needs to be fairly large to accommodate the
>> 2/2 pt roll on the 45 degree downline at the end of it. Make it
>> too small and you'll either be right on the deck for the start of
>> the next maneuver or worse. It's going to take about 1/4 of the
>> box to do it right. If you want to center the 8 point roll right
>> before it, that means you need to fly 1/4 of the way into the box
>> before you start the 8 point roll. It's just a bad combination of
>> maneuvers that won't work well together in the confines of the
>> box. I'm sure that's why FAI vertically tall and low box use
>> maneuvers on each end of the 8 point roll in the P07 schedule. I
>> like the schedule too, I just want to give the 8 point the room it
>> needs.
>>      Verne
>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>        From: Rex LESHER
>>        To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>        Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:14 PM
>>        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence
>> for 2009/2010
>>
>>
>>        Derek
>>
>>        I like the Proposed sequence the best...   I probably
>> won't be flying it, but I will be judging it.   I personally don't
>> think having
>>        the half cuban after the 8 point is that big of deal.  It
>> just forces the pilot to be in the proper position to execute that
>> string of
>>        three manuevers.  As we all know, Positioning is
>> everything...  The down humpty and the inverted 4 point roll is a
>> nice variation of revisited manuevers.   Personally, I think the
>> proposed sequence flows a little better than the "A" sequence.
>>
>>        Rex
>>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>>          From: Derek Koopowitz
>>          To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
>>          Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:26 PM
>>          Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence
>> for 2009/2010
>>
>>
>>          Over the past couple of months we (the NSRCA board) have
>> received a number of comments about the Masters sequence that was
>> selected in 2005.  We heard that the sequence had too many snaps,
>> turnaround maneuvers did not allow positioning of the plane (in or
>> out) after the 5th maneuver, and that the difficulty level from
>> Advanced to Masters was further increased.  There was also an
>> error in the schedule in that one would come out of the Double
>> Immelman (#10) inverted and head into the Humpty Bump (pull-push-
>> pull) and head into the ground based on the description.  The
>> Masters schedule was published in the July 2005 issue of the K-
>> Factor (Option A on page 25) - in order to correct the error,
>> maneuver #9 was modifed to a 1/2 Square Loop with 1/2 Roll Down
>> instead of the 1/2 Square Loop with 2/2 Pt Roll Down.
>>
>>          The board felt that the original Masters sequence
>> committee should revisit the schedule to look it over and perhaps
>> make modifications.  The original committee was Troy Newman
>> (chair), Ed Alt, Dave Lockhart, Joe Lachoswki, Arch Stafford and
>> Bob Pastorello.  Bob dropped out since he no longer flies pattern.
>> Troy and the team started working on it but Troy couldn't devote
>> 100% of his time to it due to the Nats approaching and his
>> commitment to trying to make the US team.  Dave, Ed, Joe and Arch
>> worked the sequence but decided that it would take too much
>> modification to correct.  Instead they came up with a revised
>> schedule that the board felt was a worthy replacement.  The board
>> would like to submit this schedule to the Contest Board to be
>> considered as a replacement for the original schedule.
>>
>>          What do we need from everyone?  We'd like to get your
>> opinion on the sequence that was selected in 2005 and the new
>> schedule that was created by the sequence committee to address the
>> issues that were raised by a number of pilots.
>>
>>          Here is the sequence that was selected:
>>
>>                  2009 Masters 404 Option A
>>                          KF
>>          1       Takeoff Sequence        1
>>          2       Stall Turn, 1-1/4 Roll Up, 1-1/4 Positive Snap
>> down     5
>>          3       Top-Hat with 1/4 Rolls, Exit INV        2
>>          4       Cuban 8 with Full Rolls, Exit INV       4
>>          5       Humpty Bump, with options (1/2's or 1/4's up and
>> Down to Exit Upright)  2
>>          6       Avalanche, 1-1/2 snap roll, Exit INV    4
>>          7       1/2 Square Loop on Corner (1/2 Diamond Loop)
>> 2
>>          8       Eight-Sided Outside Loop from top       4
>>          9       1/2 Square Loop, 1/2pt Roll down        2
>>          10      Double Immelman, Full Rolls     4
>>          11      Humpty Bump (pull-push-pull), Full Roll up, 1/2
>> Roll down       3
>>          12      8pt Roll        4
>>          13      Stall Turn, Full Roll up        2
>>          14      Two Loops with 1/2 Rolls on top 4
>>          15      1/2 Reverse Cuban 8 with 2/4pt Roll up  2
>>          16      Two 2/2pt Rolls Reversed        4
>>          17      Immelman Turn   2
>>          18      45 degree down, 1-1/2 Positive Snap, Exit INV
>> 3
>>          19      1/2 Cuban 8, Exit INV   2
>>          20      Triangle Loop with Snap Roll on top, Exit INV
>> 4
>>          21      1/2 Square Loop 1
>>          22      Two 2-turn spins, Reversed      4
>>          23      Landing 1
>>                  Total   66
>>
>>
>>          Here is the new sequence that was created by the
>> sequence committee:
>>
>>                  Proposed 2009-2010 Masters Sequence
>>
>>
>>          No.                     Kf
>>
>>          1       Takeoff         (U)     1
>>          2       Half Clover , with 2/4 pt roll up, 1/2 roll down
>>       (U)     4
>>          3       Humpty bump, 2/4 pt. roll up    (T)     2
>>          4       Eight point roll        (D)     4
>>          5       1/2 Cuban 8, 2/2 pt. Roll       (T)     2
>>          6       Avalanche with 1-1/2 snap, INV entry (from
>> bottom)      (U)     4
>>          7       Half square loop on corner w/ 1/2 rolls (T)
>> 2
>>          8       Eight sided loop from top, INV entry    (D)
>> 4
>>          9       Reverse Humpty Bump w/Options from top(1/2 or
>> 1/4 rolls up and down)    (T)     3
>>          10      45 degree down with 1-1/2 snap roll     (U)
>> 3
>>          11      Stall turn, half rolls, INV entry       (T)
>> 2
>>          12      Four point roll, INV entry      (D)     4
>>          13      Humpty Bump(push,pull,pull), 2/4 pt. Roll Up,
>> 1/2 Roll Down, INV entry  (T)     3
>>          14      Figure-M , with 3/4 Rolls       (U)     5
>>          15      Top Hat w/ 1/4 Rolls    (T)     2
>>          16      Two 2/2 pt. rolls reversed      (D)     4
>>          17      Immelmann Turn  (T)     2
>>          18      Hour Glass( MID entry, top first) 2/4 pt roll
>> down      (U)     5
>>          19      Figure 9 from middle (INV entry, top first)
>> (T)     1
>>          20      Double Immelmann with Full Rolls        (D)
>> 3
>>          21      Half Square Loop with 2/2 pt. roll up   (T)
>> 2
>>          22      2-1/2 Turn Spin, INV entry, upright exit
>> (U)     3
>>          23      Landing (U)     1
>>
>>                          TOTAL   66
>>
>>
>>          Hopefully the above is legible. please let me know your
>> thoughts.
>>
>>          _______________________________________________
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>>          NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>          http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
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