[NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence for 2009/2010
verne at twmi.rr.com
verne at twmi.rr.com
Fri Jul 27 08:30:03 AKDT 2007
Fred,
Didn't ignore anything. If you wanted a response on whether or not it's
okay for the 45 down to come back over the previous maneuver, then the
answer is yes, it's okay. That's not where the problem is. Yes I'm
aware it's not a half REVERSE cuban. The problem is on the back side of
the 5/8 loop or the deepest point of the box if you prefer because the
loop has to be big enough to accommodate the 2 of 2 on the 45 downline.
Big loop equals long downline, small loop equals short downline, either
of which is heading toward the ground with two half rolls to be flown
within it. In short, the problem is attaching a looping maneuver to the
end of long rolling maneuver.
Verne
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net>
Date: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:34 am
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence for 2009/2010
To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Proposed Masters Sequence for 2009/2010and... you ignored
> everthing in my post...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Verne Koester
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence for
> 2009/2010
>
> Fred,
> A half cuban starts with a half loop, then a 45 down line. If
> you wait until you're near the end of the box to pull into the
> half loop, the back tangent of the loop will be way out of the
> box. Compounding the problem is the fact that it calls for two of
> a two point roll which must be centered on the 45 downline. We
> currently do the same maneuver in the existing Masters schedule.
> If you draw an honest 45 degree line out of the half loop, you've
> got to make sure the half loop is big enough to create a 45 degree
> downline long enough to accommodate the 2 half rolls or you'll end
> up very low and very uncomfortable and the judges will have a hard
> time seeing the bottom of the next maneuver. My experience with
> the current schedule says that this maneuver uses roughly 1/4 of
> the box. Waiting for a quarter of the box prior to the start of
> the 8 point so it will be centered means you're squeezing an 8
> point roll into roughly 1/2 of the box, give or take a little. I'm
> sure it's possible, but it'll be fast and ugly and that's under
> ideal conditions. Show me a previous schedule in FAI that didn't
> use tall, vertically-oriented maneuvers on both ends of an 8
> point, and I'll be quiet.
>
> Verne
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fred Huber
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence for
> 2009/2010
>
> Its a half cuban (not reversed...) you can be near end of box
> before the pull... (1 large loop radius from end)
>
> If its a reverse... THEN its definitely a squeese for the 8
> point.
>
> This "approach" might have a point or two of the 8 point under
> the 45 drawn in the half cuban... But it lets you use ALMOST 1/2
> a box for the 1/2 cuban... You can size the 5/8 loop and time the
> 2/2 to end up at a higher or lower altitude.
>
> The question then becomes.... is it a downgrade to have the
> maneuvers come out that way? There can easilly be a straight
> segment after the 8th point before the pull and have the result I
> described.
> Line lengths and loop radius (where not required to be equal
> to a different length/radius) are not downgrades....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Verne Koester
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence
> for 2009/2010
>
>
> Rex,
> The half cuban needs to be fairly large to accommodate the
> 2/2 pt roll on the 45 degree downline at the end of it. Make it
> too small and you'll either be right on the deck for the start of
> the next maneuver or worse. It's going to take about 1/4 of the
> box to do it right. If you want to center the 8 point roll right
> before it, that means you need to fly 1/4 of the way into the box
> before you start the 8 point roll. It's just a bad combination of
> maneuvers that won't work well together in the confines of the
> box. I'm sure that's why FAI vertically tall and low box use
> maneuvers on each end of the 8 point roll in the P07 schedule. I
> like the schedule too, I just want to give the 8 point the room it
> needs.
> Verne
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rex LESHER
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence
> for 2009/2010
>
>
> Derek
>
> I like the Proposed sequence the best... I probably
> won't be flying it, but I will be judging it. I personally don't
> think having
> the half cuban after the 8 point is that big of deal. It
> just forces the pilot to be in the proper position to execute that
> string of
> three manuevers. As we all know, Positioning is
> everything... The down humpty and the inverted 4 point roll is a
> nice variation of revisited manuevers. Personally, I think the
> proposed sequence flows a little better than the "A" sequence.
>
> Rex
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Derek Koopowitz
> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:26 PM
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed Masters Sequence
> for 2009/2010
>
>
> Over the past couple of months we (the NSRCA board) have
> received a number of comments about the Masters sequence that was
> selected in 2005. We heard that the sequence had too many snaps,
> turnaround maneuvers did not allow positioning of the plane (in or
> out) after the 5th maneuver, and that the difficulty level from
> Advanced to Masters was further increased. There was also an
> error in the schedule in that one would come out of the Double
> Immelman (#10) inverted and head into the Humpty Bump (pull-push-
> pull) and head into the ground based on the description. The
> Masters schedule was published in the July 2005 issue of the K-
> Factor (Option A on page 25) - in order to correct the error,
> maneuver #9 was modifed to a 1/2 Square Loop with 1/2 Roll Down
> instead of the 1/2 Square Loop with 2/2 Pt Roll Down.
>
> The board felt that the original Masters sequence
> committee should revisit the schedule to look it over and perhaps
> make modifications. The original committee was Troy Newman
> (chair), Ed Alt, Dave Lockhart, Joe Lachoswki, Arch Stafford and
> Bob Pastorello. Bob dropped out since he no longer flies pattern.
> Troy and the team started working on it but Troy couldn't devote
> 100% of his time to it due to the Nats approaching and his
> commitment to trying to make the US team. Dave, Ed, Joe and Arch
> worked the sequence but decided that it would take too much
> modification to correct. Instead they came up with a revised
> schedule that the board felt was a worthy replacement. The board
> would like to submit this schedule to the Contest Board to be
> considered as a replacement for the original schedule.
>
> What do we need from everyone? We'd like to get your
> opinion on the sequence that was selected in 2005 and the new
> schedule that was created by the sequence committee to address the
> issues that were raised by a number of pilots.
>
> Here is the sequence that was selected:
>
> 2009 Masters 404 Option A
> KF
> 1 Takeoff Sequence 1
> 2 Stall Turn, 1-1/4 Roll Up, 1-1/4 Positive Snap
> down 5
> 3 Top-Hat with 1/4 Rolls, Exit INV 2
> 4 Cuban 8 with Full Rolls, Exit INV 4
> 5 Humpty Bump, with options (1/2's or 1/4's up and
> Down to Exit Upright) 2
> 6 Avalanche, 1-1/2 snap roll, Exit INV 4
> 7 1/2 Square Loop on Corner (1/2 Diamond Loop)
> 2
> 8 Eight-Sided Outside Loop from top 4
> 9 1/2 Square Loop, 1/2pt Roll down 2
> 10 Double Immelman, Full Rolls 4
> 11 Humpty Bump (pull-push-pull), Full Roll up, 1/2
> Roll down 3
> 12 8pt Roll 4
> 13 Stall Turn, Full Roll up 2
> 14 Two Loops with 1/2 Rolls on top 4
> 15 1/2 Reverse Cuban 8 with 2/4pt Roll up 2
> 16 Two 2/2pt Rolls Reversed 4
> 17 Immelman Turn 2
> 18 45 degree down, 1-1/2 Positive Snap, Exit INV
> 3
> 19 1/2 Cuban 8, Exit INV 2
> 20 Triangle Loop with Snap Roll on top, Exit INV
> 4
> 21 1/2 Square Loop 1
> 22 Two 2-turn spins, Reversed 4
> 23 Landing 1
> Total 66
>
>
> Here is the new sequence that was created by the
> sequence committee:
>
> Proposed 2009-2010 Masters Sequence
>
>
> No. Kf
>
> 1 Takeoff (U) 1
> 2 Half Clover , with 2/4 pt roll up, 1/2 roll down
> (U) 4
> 3 Humpty bump, 2/4 pt. roll up (T) 2
> 4 Eight point roll (D) 4
> 5 1/2 Cuban 8, 2/2 pt. Roll (T) 2
> 6 Avalanche with 1-1/2 snap, INV entry (from
> bottom) (U) 4
> 7 Half square loop on corner w/ 1/2 rolls (T)
> 2
> 8 Eight sided loop from top, INV entry (D)
> 4
> 9 Reverse Humpty Bump w/Options from top(1/2 or
> 1/4 rolls up and down) (T) 3
> 10 45 degree down with 1-1/2 snap roll (U)
> 3
> 11 Stall turn, half rolls, INV entry (T)
> 2
> 12 Four point roll, INV entry (D) 4
> 13 Humpty Bump(push,pull,pull), 2/4 pt. Roll Up,
> 1/2 Roll Down, INV entry (T) 3
> 14 Figure-M , with 3/4 Rolls (U) 5
> 15 Top Hat w/ 1/4 Rolls (T) 2
> 16 Two 2/2 pt. rolls reversed (D) 4
> 17 Immelmann Turn (T) 2
> 18 Hour Glass( MID entry, top first) 2/4 pt roll
> down (U) 5
> 19 Figure 9 from middle (INV entry, top first)
> (T) 1
> 20 Double Immelmann with Full Rolls (D)
> 3
> 21 Half Square Loop with 2/2 pt. roll up (T)
> 2
> 22 2-1/2 Turn Spin, INV entry, upright exit
> (U) 3
> 23 Landing (U) 1
>
> TOTAL 66
>
>
> Hopefully the above is legible. please let me know your
> thoughts.
>
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