[NSRCA-discussion] Masters Set-Up

Wed Jul 4 03:19:40 AKDT 2007

Nat / Amir, You guys have got me going on this one. I need a couple more
calm days and more evaluation. I understand the torque effect should force
right roll trim requiring left correction, however this may not actually be
what I am seeing or think I am seeing. Entering the six sided outside loop
in advanced I consistently need a right roll correction as I push down to
the first 60 degree line or the maneuver plane is rotated about five degrees
which becomes really noticeable on the bottom horizontal. The most likely
explanation is that I am entering the first push with the right wing high. I
am having trouble determining if the cause is due to low throttle roll trim
or visual recognition of wings level. 90% of my flying this time of year is
in wind requiring a L-R direction. In the past the only way I could identify
pilot recognition problems was to fly the same maneuver repeatedly in both
directions. If the cause is pilot recognition such as in the low wing / high
wing syndrome the offending response will be to the airplanes opposite. This
will need more work.
When I started trying to fly the masters sequence I needed a little faster
roll rate and during differential aileron evaluation found that changing the
end points to 110% didn’t produce equal deflection changes. Nuts, I thought
I had the pushrod to servo wheel and control horn angles 90 degrees. Slow
rolls improved after adjusting all four end points to produce equal
deflection angles. This is more critical than I suspected and explains why
some airplanes flew better than others in the past. I now have a deflection
indicator sensitive enough to see about 3%. Is this good enough, or is good
enough never good enough?
We’re having fun now.
Jim Hiller

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Nat Penton
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:11 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Set-Up

Amir
Just thinking out loud. Torque tends to make the airplane roll left. Torque
aero effects are max at full power and low airspeed ( vertical ). We
normally trim ailerons for one airspeed and the choice is  S & L .

Based on above the airplane should roll right when you take away the torque.
Nat
----- Original Message -----
From: Amir Neshati <mailto:amirneshati at earthlink.net>
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Set-Up

I glanced through it...about throttle to aileron mix section. My experience
has been the opposite. I’ve always noticed the airplanes roll slightly to
the left (not right as the article states) when throttle is reduced.  I’ve
flown many different sizes, including  .60 size, 2 meter stuff and some big
IMAC machines. Even flown quite a few of other people’s planes (some more
than the owners flew themselves :-), all built really well by talented
modelers & builders. All rolled left, not right
.Torque wants to roll the
plane left when accelerating, the slip stream/pitch factor wants to roll the
plane right at speed, which becomes the dominating force at or near full
speed, so we carry left aileron trim at full throttle, when we throttle
back, the left trim now takes over and rolls the plane to the left
.In
short, right aileron needs to be mixed with low throttle.

Amir Neshati
Realty Executives Of Nevada
2855 Saint Rose Parkway
Henderson, Nevada 89052
Cell:   702-505-3085
Fax:   702-270-6088

http://www.lasvegasandhendersonhomes.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jim Woodward
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:19 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Set-Up

Hi Jim,

I would like too add to that reading material an article written by
Peter Goldsmith regarding trimming seen here:
http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=70

Peter's article is on the far right side of the page under "special"
articles.  This is on of the best trimming article I've read and goes a
little further than a list of tests to perform.

Thanks,
Jim W.

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tom Simes
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:45 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Set-Up

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:39:09 -0700
"J N Hiller" <jnhiller at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hello all, how about a new subject?
> I am returning to competition after several years out and wish to
> begin flying Masters. I haven't flown inverted a lot and find it quite
> challenging. Reverse point rolls from inverted got my full attention
> right away and I can learn to deal with it in time. The predominant
> problem I am experiencing is locking on to horizontal inverted flight.
> I am having difficulty releasing the elevator to the correct amount of
> down stick. I using about 40% expo and would be comfortable flying
> with the CG further back. Before I burn a lot of fuel trying to master
> the required stick movement I would like to get some recommendations
> on set-up and flight trimming. HELP!
> Thanks
> Jim Hiller

Hi Jim,

If you haven't already, I really recommend going through these trim
instructions with your airplane:

http://www.nsrca.org/trimA.htm

Tom

======================================================================
   "Z-80 system stack overflow.  Shut 'er down Scotty, the system's
         sucking mud" - Error message on TRS 80 Model-16B

Tom Simes                                       simestd at netexpress.com
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