[NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.

Matthew Frederick mjfrederick at cox.net
Sun Jul 1 00:22:59 AKDT 2007


I'd like to see the code myself... I've got quite a bit of Computer Science 
training.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Huber" <fhhuber at clearwire.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.


> What computer language was the program written in?
>
> Send me the source code.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "W. Hinkle" <whinkle1024 at msn.com>
> To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.
>
>
>> Dave is a good pilot but character being beyond reproach is a bit of a
>> stretch. Ask John Glizellis about when Dave shot him down and haggled 
>> over
>> the price. This was to replace a brand new model with less than 30 
>> flights
>> on it at the NATS. The incident was at the NATS during practice at the 
>> AMA
>> field. We all make mistakes, but to penny pinch the guy that just cost 
>> his
>> new model part way through the Nationals. JR had to step in and forced 
>> the
>> hand. If it had not been for Dave the sponsorship threat Dave would still
>> be
>> argueing the price of a new built model. Dave replaced it after some
>> debate
>> with JR. This is not character beyond reproach? Dave may be a good guy
>> just
>> don't be on the same freq. He'll tell how poor your model is built and 
>> its
>> not worth the price of a professional built kit.
>>
>> I'll agree that both parties in this fight are not angels. I'm not a fan
>> or
>> Eric's but my question to this forum
>>
>> Why is the NSRCA involved at all?
>>
>> Doesn't the NSRCA have better things to do with its time and energy than
>> lynching a judge at the request of a couple pilots that have character
>> beyond reproach?
>>
>> I feel this is another sign of the NSRCA just wasting resources, time and
>> money in the name of being the Savior of pattern flying. Beware people
>> beware. Come on. Getting two of Dave's best buddies in D1 to write a
>> program
>> to damn a person that they and David hate with a passion. To me is smells
>> like old shellfish. These were the same judges who claimed in the past 
>> the
>> judge that gave the zero was the one that got it right.
>>
>> The NSRCA has no business in this arena. I find it appalling the Board
>> even
>> had this on the agenda. I also find it appalling that a ruling was made,
>> then Eric was notified of the charges and the conviction. As Eric stated,
>> no
>> statistics can determine what the judge actually saw or better yet what
>> the
>> pilot actually flew. So Eric's scores were below the average for a given
>> pilot. Maybe the pilot flew below average in Eric's eyes. This is why the
>> NATS uses more than one judge. This is a fact of life. This looks very 
>> one
>> sided by the NSRCA.
>>
>> The NSRCA has no place in this squabble.
>>
>>
>>>From: "John Pavlick" <jpavlick at idseng.com>
>>>Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.
>>>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:27:00 -0400
>>>
>>>Len,
>>>  All of the people involved were from D1 - I thought the good ol' boys
>>>were in D2 and D3! <LOL>
>>>
>>>John Pavlick
>>>http://www.idseng.com
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>   From: Leonard Rudy
>>>   To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>>   Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:47 PM
>>>   Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.
>>>
>>>
>>>   John,
>>>
>>>        The conflict may have blossomed like a Hockey Game Conflict, but
>>> in
>>>the NHL
>>>   those "with the power" hear both sides and let each side present their
>>>case before
>>>   the powers to be assign penalties.  After the penalties are imposed,
>>> the
>>>player or
>>>   individual still has the right to appeal the decision.
>>>        You say Eric should take whatever the powers to be want and don't
>>>make any
>>>   noise or waves.
>>>        This is a clear message to others who will be judging at meets in
>>>the future.  DO NOT GIVE THE GOOD OLD BOYS GROUP any low or bad scores or
>>>you may be on the receiving end of some form of penalty that you will not
>>>like.
>>>
>>>   Len Rudy
>>>     "Life is easier if you learn to plow around the stumps" or in other
>>>words, do not
>>>   hand out low scores to the Good Old Boys or you will pay dearly for it
>>>one way or
>>>   another.
>>>
>>>   Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net> wrote:
>>>     The penalty does not appear appropriate...
>>>
>>>     It also sounds like it was not applied in a manner consistant with
>>> the
>>>rules system.
>>>       ----- Original Message -----
>>>       From: John Ferrell
>>>       To: Don Ramsey ; NSRCA Mailing List
>>>       Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:12 AM
>>>       Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.
>>>
>>>
>>>       I have the good fortune to not be involved in this dispute. I am
>>>only aware of the conflict.
>>>
>>>       Not being very good at staying out of arguments, I offer the
>>>following observations:
>>>       A heated difference of opinions occurred.
>>>       Every one involved is considered a valuable asset to the Pattern
>>>Game.
>>>       Things were said that should not have been said.
>>>       Every one thinks they are right.
>>>       There was probably at least one (or may be several) bad call(s) by
>>>some one.
>>>
>>>       The conflict blossomed like a Hockey Game Conflict and the net
>>>result was those with the power and responsibility treated it like a
>>>Hockey
>>>Game Conflict! A serious "time out" was assigned to the individual at the
>>>focal point of the conflict. It was their duty to put the problem on ice.
>>>
>>>       The expectations of the rest of us who value the game and its
>>>players is that right or wrong the referee's call must be honored. The
>>>referee has the power to impose further penalties if the individual
>>>continues to make waves. Right or wrong, this is the was disputes are
>>>handled in the world of competition.
>>>
>>>       If the individual was drawn into the conflict by goading it is
>>> still
>>>he who gets the penalty.
>>>
>>>       Conflict resolution is not something that is natural to the human
>>>condition. Conflict is.
>>>
>>>       Eric needs to take the penalty and get on with things.Those in
>>> power
>>>need to accept that the penalty has been applied and to continue the 
>>>game.
>>>
>>>       WE ALL need to be aware that we either play nice or get sent to 
>>> the
>>>showers!
>>>
>>>       Another factor to consider is that the higher profile one achieves
>>>in this sport the greater the need to hold that individual to higher
>>>standards.
>>>       Eric is certainly a "high profile" player.
>>>
>>>       John Ferrell    W8CCW
>>>       "Life is easier if you learn to plow
>>>              around the stumps"
>>>       http://DixieNC.US
>>>
>>>         ----- Original Message -----
>>>         From: Don Ramsey
>>>         To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>>         Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 7:32 PM
>>>         Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.
>>>
>>>
>>>         I would like to thank Eric for the nice complement in his
>>> comment,
>>>"To circumvent this conflict of interest problem and to keep the 
>>>Nationals
>>>above reproach, I steeped out of line and asked Don Ramsey to
>>>independently
>>>choose the judges, Dave could not refuse this method, but I will tell you
>>>that he got extremely mad at me for doing it."
>>>
>>>         I must respond that for good or bad I've been choosing the 
>>> finals
>>>judges for many years.  I started that process when Jeff Hill was Event
>>>Director.  It must also be stated that I've never had any pressure of any
>>>kind from contest management regarding who I choose to judge.  I try to
>>>pick the best candidates and rotate those so no single judge can 
>>>influence
>>>the outcome extradionarly.
>>>
>>>         Don
>>>
>>>
>>>
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