[NSRCA-discussion] [Fwd: Proposal]

Thu Aug 23 20:06:52 AKDT 2007

I was competing in Sportsman at the time and it was a LOT of fun. This was
pre-turnaround style now referred to as Ballistic Pattern. Two things
changed. 1988 brought in Expert Turnaround, which I moved to, and Normalized
scoring in all classes, at least at the NATS. The august 1988 K-Factor lists
64 Sportsman, 36 Advanced, 29 Expert, 21 Masters and 53 FAI with 10
contestant finals in both Masters and FAI. The 1992 rulebook brought in
turnaround schedules in all classed with box exits in Sportsman similar to
the present. As for what happened, I can only offer a single opinion from a
limited regional perspective. We were for the most part modelers and Pattern
was the top RC aerobatic competitive AMA event. Many of us were recreational
competitors and a weekend out of town was an enjoyable social activity with
many competitors staying at the same motel and we thoroughly enjoyed dinner
and drinks Saturday evening. Traveling to a contest with 6 or 8 local fliers
was like a rolling circus with a $200 price tag (now it is around $300, for
me).
As we all got older many moved or were unable to continue for a variety of
reasons. The real problem was in failing to replace lower level competitors
as we progressed to higher classes where many still compete regularly (large
Masters class). Turnaround was very difficult to start into without having
already developed the skills necessary to fly many of the individual
maneuvers. Us old guys grandfathered into turnaround and all we needed to do
was reposition some of the maneuver to the box boundary. I saw this same
problem in IMAC locally with many interested people some of which may have
traveled to compete. It takes a fair commitment to learn to fly turnaround
from scratch. You might look at it as the difference between flying a list
of maneuvers (old AMA) to flying a single complete flight plan (turnaround)
from takeoff through landing requiring on-the-fly positioning and heading
maintenance, in the wind even. It takes more than a couple years for most of
us to get comfortable with this unceasing load on our central processor.
I am losing my train of thought. I need to end this and of course pattern
needs to be sold one on one locally, continuously.
Jim Hiller

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of george w.
kennie
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:46 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [Fwd: Proposal]

That ' 87 listing was interesting to me in light of the class number
reversal seen by the huge Sportsman class relative the Expert numbers. There
must be a lesson in there somewhere. Is the reversal the result of forced
advancement???
I think there were a total of 141 pilots and did that exclude FAI ??? Where
did we go wrong, or did we even ???????
Interesting stuff !!!
G.

----- Original Message -----
From: John Gayer <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [Fwd: Proposal]

The option system I proposed addresses this. The only requirement when you
point out is that you try the next class. This could be for a year, two
contests, whatever we decide to propose. If it's too intense/difficult/time
consuming  in the next class, drop back. I find it unlikely that this would
be abused and peer pressure should take care of any that are purely camped
for trophies.
I see absolutely no reason not to include Masters in this advancement/option
scheme. Come on guys, try F3A, you might actually like it.

John

Mark Atwood wrote:
I think this really only speaks to not being forced to move up.  Period.
Del is making the point that it has to stay "fun" for more than just the top
guys.

We have a number in our district that have "Fun" being a casual
competitor...I'll bet most districts do. They ALL fly masters.  Why?
Because they can camp there.  They are serious enough, or have time enough,
or talent enough to have fun at that level.  Most can win a round here and
there, some win regularly, some don't , all have fun.

The problem is that we don't have the same group for Advanced.  Those that
have a little less time, a little less talent, etc.  They have fun until
they point out...and then someone pushes them to Masters where they really
don't belong and they quit.  Can't move back, and don't have fun bringing up
the bottom ALWAYS in masters.

Same is true of Intemediate. There are those that would stay there happily
until pattern retirement.  They'd win some, lose some, watch others pass
them by, but at no time are they comfortable flying advanced.  Etc etc etc.

We've beat this to death.  Unfortunately someone out there is scared of the
almight "Sandbagger" that's going to suck up allll the valuable hardware in
a lower class because they suck to much to beat them.  THAT person is the
one we should not be catering too...

-Mark

On 8/23/07 4:23 PM,  "seefo at san.rr.com" <mailto:seefo at san.rr.com>
<seefo at san.rr.com> <mailto:seefo at san.rr.com>  wrote:

What exactly is a casual competitor?

I'm being serious here. Someone who doesn't put in the time necessary
to be at their best cannot expect to win contests, and you certainly
cannot change the sport so these people CAN win. Most of us have other
things to do that take up our time. That's life. I can't practice every
day, but at the same time, I don't expect Quique, Andrew, or Jason, or
anyone else to make concessions to me because they can and do put in
the time.

A person who cannot devote the time necessary to be at the top of their
game, should have enough character and intelligence to accept that
fact. At that point they have 3 choices.

1) Compete and HAVE FUN at the level they can currently.
2) Devote more time and energy to the competition and get better.
3) Move on to something else.

People need to remember that competition is, and SHOULD BE unforgiving
of excuses.

-Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Del K. Rykert"  <drykert2 at rochester.rr.com>
<mailto:drykert2 at rochester.rr.com>
Date: Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [Fwd: Proposal]
To: NSRCA Mailing List  <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

These are all great but, I see nothing changing to stop driving
away the casual competitor. If the organization and sport wants to
truly grow that area is long overdue. We need their numbers and
help at fielding contests.

   Del

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