[NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
John Gayer
jgghome at comcast.net
Thu Aug 16 05:43:10 AKDT 2007
Terry,
I really don't understand the relevance of the "controlling body".
Either we aim our top-notch fliers at the world level competition or we
withdraw intoo our own little world, allowing the US team to become an
afterthought.
I expect you are right about the smaller countries of the world not
having a setup of classes but I suspect you have not researched the
statement. The information I could find quickly indicates that Great
Britain, Australia and Canada have lower classes. I tried to figure out
what the French are doing but failed, as usual. I believe most of the
countries likely to do well and field a full team at the Worlds will
have a scheme to delveop aerobatic pilots.
The national classes in the other countries appear to be aimed at FAI.
Clearly the Australian system is. There you have to /earn /promotion to
the next class by getting a certain percentage of the FAI pilot raw
score national average. Hardly sounds like they could (or would want to)
eleminate FAI from their aerobatic schedules. Note also that you have
to earn your way to the next class. There is no way to personally decide
you are ready for the next class and move up. Promotion is something all
aerobatic pilots in Australia aspire to, especially the prestige and
honor in being promoted to FAI.
The national body will also relegate you back down to the next lower
class if you fail to meet a minimum standard of attendance or performance.
Lastly, Masters is not, by definition, a destination class. It is, by
the current rule, a destination class. This has not always been the
case. In the old days, as we are both old enough to remember, Masters
was the FAI schedule.
Hopefully I will get back to the triplle cities to visit in the next
few years. It would be good to see you and Bob Noll again.
John
Adrien L Terrenoire wrote:
> Fred: I don't know what part of "FAI and AMA are not controlled by the
> same body" you do not understand!
>
> In many smaller countries around the world FAI is the ONLY class flown
> in competition. They have NO national coverning body to administer any
> "lower" classes.
>
> In the US, Canada, and I guess Australia, we have established National
> classes. They have virtually nothing to do with FAI. A CD could run a
> contest without including FAI. If that were the case, any FAI pilot
> could enter the Masters class. Truth be known, any FAI flier can do
> that now.
>
> I do not know what class you are flying, but if you are flying
> Masters, and want to be on top...work harder, don't complain that
> someone is "sandbagging" in a class that by definition IS a
> destination class.
>
> Terry T.
>
>
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:08:52 -0500 "Fred Huber" <fhhuber at clearwire.net
> <mailto:fhhuber at clearwire.net>> writes:
>
> If there is no support for the forcing move up from Master to FAI
>
> There can be no valid argument to force anyone to ever move up
> from any class.
>
> Either the rules should have a consistant progression system... or
> no system to make the guy who likes taking st place at advanced
> home every contest for 30 years.
>
> Tell Chip Hyde to fly Masters... Tell Todd Blose to fly
> Intermediate, Have Jason fly Advanced... and make the contest a joke.
>
> Drive all the lower level competitors out of the sport.
>
> It'll be great for Pattern.
> We'll get hundreds of new members wanting to be able to say:
> "I flew in Pattern and got a 100... to MattK's 1000..... he flew
> Sportsman this time because he didn't want to look like a fool
> compared to someone else."
>
>
> Be consistant... or be shown the way the inconsistancy can be
> followed through on.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* rcmaster199 at aol.com <mailto:rcmaster199 at aol.com>
> *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
> selection?
>
> Masters needs it???
>
> Move up to where?? Alaska??
>
> Ohhhh....drop out when you reach your allotted points, that's
> what you mean. OKAY then... I see the logic
>
> MattK
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net
> <mailto:fhhuber at clearwire.net>>
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> Sent: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 7:16 pm
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
> selection?
>
> OK... its an AMA class
>
> ALL OTHER AMA CLASSES HAVE THE FORCED MOVE UP POINT SYSTEM.
>
> Masters needs it.
>
> And... there's no real support for allowing someone to
> willy-nilly move between FAI and other classes whenever they
> want...
> (no one does... because no one wants to practise FAI and any
> other class at the same time.. the lower class would take too
> much time from the FAI practice)
>
> Rules need to be consistent... Or someone will notice that
> they aren't.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Tim Taylor <mailto:timsautopro at yahoo.com>
> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:01 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in
> class selection?
>
> FAI is class 406, an AMA Class, Just checked the rule book.
>
> http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf
>
> */Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net
> <mailto:fhhuber at clearwire.net>>/* wrote:
>
> In that case... there's no support for offering FAI
> class at an AMA sanctioned event.
>
> Its not an AMA class. Have a seperate contest.
>
> That worm turns 2 ways.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ken Thompson <mailto:mrandmrst at comcast.net>
> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:57 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility
> in class selection?
>
> The bottom line is this...the AMA has 4 classes,
> the top level being Masters. FAI is an
> international F3A class, not a AMA class..."in my
> opinion" there can never be a mandatory
> progression from an AMA SIG class to an
> international class.
>
> As for your question, my logic should, and does,
> apply to every class controlled by the AMA...which
> is what I'm talking about.
>
> Ken
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John Gayer <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:38 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More
> flexibility in class selection?
>
> Why does this apply to every class except
> Masters??
> Aren't there better flyers available to learn
> from in FAI? :)
> John
>
> Ken Thompson wrote:
>
>>Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!! You will only get better if you do one of two things, 1. Fly against people that are better than you, obviously paying attention to their flights. 2. Have a pilot that is better than you willing to coach you. I've been blessed with having both...any contest I go to in D6 will have pilots that are better than I am, and I have Archie as a coach to help me through the little things. BTW: I fully expect to be flying Masters in 6 or 7 years. That will put me at 54 or 55 years old when I make the move. Personally I have no desire to go to contests and come in 1st or 2nd on a regular basis, AND stay in that class...it simply won't make me a better pilot. My goal is to
>> get better every year, with hard work and patience, it will happen. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: <rcpattern at stx.rr.com> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
>>
>>>I take exception to this. FAI and Masters are not related. I have been flying masters several years, finishing as high as second this year at the NATS. Yes, I'm coming back next year in Masters. I have a goal of winning the nats before I move up. I can be realistic...at some point with enough practice I might be able to crack the finals in FAI at the NATS, but I'm smart enough to know that realistically winning FAI isnt going to happen. I
>>> would also argue that the guys that have been flying masters for years, just raise the bar. I know in different areas I've flown around the country, these are the guys that make guys fly better. Show up in District 6 sometime, and fly Masters...you'll definitely get better. 6 of the top 10 at the NATS were D6. The means, guy that finished in the top 10 at the NATS in what is probably top to bottom the most competitive class have trouble getting wood at a local contest. I can promise you though, the guys that fly here have greatly improved their flying than they would have in other parts of the country. Glen has set the bar here for a while, and I know the other guys are pushing to catch him, and if you look now at local contest scores, it is getting closer. At any given time down here in D6, I'd say 6 or 7 guys can take a round in masters. Now that makes it fun. I know when I was flying in D4 last year. Every contest I went to, was Verne K, and
>>> Steve Miller....I knew I'd better put up great flights every flight and this makes you a better pilot. I think you should try moving up...take a year of the low 900's, and then see where you are the following year. I bet you start moving up and before you know it you would be right there in the mix. This is a competitive activity and the only way you improve is flying against people who are better than you. Arch ----- Original Message ----- From: John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:41 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection? To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>
>>>>Ron, I take exception to those rules. There should be only one destination class. Why shouldn't
>>>> there be a mandatory move from Masters to F3A? They are just two patterns with a natural progression as there is between Advanced and Masters. Parking and sandbagging is a mental state, not a rules violation. john Ron Van Putte wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The Master class is the top AMA class and there is no mandatory
>>>>>
>>>>move
>>>>
>>>>>from the Master class to F3A, so how can there be "parkers" or "sandbaggers"? Ron Van Putte On Aug 15, 2007, at 2:10 PM, John Gayer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>how about changing the AMA advancemant rule and keep it very
>>>>>>
>>>>simple?>> Your first contest of the year will determine your class for the
>>>>
>>>>>>year. You may go up one class at any time during
>>>>>> the year but
>>>>>>
>>>>may not
>>>>
>>>>>>go back down during the year. At the start of the next year you
>>>>>>
>>>>may
>>>>
>>>>>>drop back one class at your option, stay where you are or go up
>>>>>>
>>>>a class.
>>>>
>>>>>>This is simple enough that your fellow competitiors will know
>>>>>>
>>>>if you
>>>>
>>>>>>are following the rules. It will also be up to your fellow competitiors to insure that you are not sandbagging. I also feel strongly that sandbagging in Masters should not be allowed. If you disregard Sportsman, then
>>>>>> half of the classes
>>>>>>
>>>>allow
>>>>
>>>>>>parking. Obviously, F3A has to be a parking lot but I see no
>>>>>>
>>>>reason
>>>>
>>>>>>to allow this behavior in Masters. As a competant advanced
>>>>>>
>>>>pilot of
>>>>
>>>>>>somewhat advanced years, I have very little interest in moving
>>>>>>
>>>>to
>>>>
>>>>>>Masters in order to spend the rest of my pattern years trying
>>>>>>
>>>>to
>>>>
>>>>>>break 900 against the
>>>>>> parkers. I fail to see the logic in having two destination classes.
>>>>>>
>>>>Shouldn't
>>>>
>>>>>>we all aspire to progress to FAI? The current Masters schedule
>>>>>>
>>>>is
>>>>
>>>>>>designed as a stepping stone to Masters. Let's use it that way. John Gayer NSRCA 632 BUDDYonRC at aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There was a proposal on the last rules cycle that would allow
>>>>>>>
>>>>a
>>>>
>>>>>>>person to move up and test his ability then move back if he
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>had not
>>>>
>>>>>>>attained the skills required for the higher class. I
>>>>>>>
>>>>personally
>>>>
>>>>>>>think it is a good idea and I also see no need for the point
>>>>>>>
>>>>system
>>>>
>>>>>>>like someone said if someone abuses the privilege we can
>>>>>>>
>>>>solicit
>>>>
>>>>>>>Earl and four other guys his size to take him behind the barn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>>>>splain to him why he will be moving up. I believe peer
>>>>>>>
>>>>pressure is
>>>>
>>>>>>>all the control we need. I think this is worth a try. For those who have the ability and desire to achieve a spot at
>>>>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>>>top I don't see that we have a problem. Buddy ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>---------
>>>>
>>>>>>>Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com
>>>>>>>
>>>><http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?
>>>>
>>>ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>.>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>--------
>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>>
>>>>>-----------------!
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>------
>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>
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