[NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
Gene Maurice
gene.maurice at sgmservice.com
Wed Aug 15 17:39:18 AKDT 2007
Actually, my suggestion was that folks read the rulebook themselves. I only
provided information relative to the immediate discussion. It can be
downloaded from
http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf
Gene Maurice
gene.mauirce at sgmservice.com
Plano, Texas
AMA 3408 NSRCA 877
_____
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Fred Huber
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:50 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
May as well post the section about how many points require a move up (int
-adv... adv-master) too.... That seems to be missing.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene <mailto:gene.maurice at sgmservice.com> Maurice
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
For those that haven't read it, please read the rulebook.
The applicable sections are:
7. Pattern event classes. The Pattern event shall
be divided into five (5) classes. The first four (4)
shall (in order of increasing difficulty) be
referred to as Sportsman, Intermediate,
Advanced, and Masters. The fifth class shall be
referred to as the FAI class. The Sportsman class
is supplemental (see Supplemental and
Provisional Rules, page 2). Competitors must be
advised prior to the start of the contest of any
planned deviations from standard AMA rules
pertaining to the events they have entered.
8.2. A contestant will be mandatorily
advanced through the classes as follows: A flier
must move out of the Sportsman class at the end
of that calendar year if he places first, second, or
third, and above at least four (4) other fliers
(having recorded an official flight) in any
sanctioned Pattern class contest. For
Intermediate and Advanced fliers, advancement
takes place through the accumulation of points.
In these classes, contestants receive points
according to their finishing place in every contest
they compete in. For fliers finishing third or
below in a given contest, they will receive points
equal to the number of official (having recorded
an official flight) fliers they beat. The second
place winner will receive points equal to twice
the number of official fliers he beats, and the
first place winner will receive points equal to
three times the number of official fliers he beats.
The points each contestant receives go into his
cumulative record.
8.2.5. There is no mandatory
advancement into FAI from the Masters class.
Contestants may enter their current AMA class
or the FAI class at any contest but not both.
8.3. Each Pattern contestant is
responsible for maintaining an accurate record of
his own classification points. Handy wallet size
Classification Advancement Record forms are
available upon request from AMA HQ; please
include a preaddressed and stamped return
envelope. CDs of meets having RC Pattern
events are also provided with a small supply of
such forms.
Gene Maurice
gene.mauirce at sgmservice.com
Plano, Texas
AMA 3408 NSRCA 877
_____
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Gayer
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:13 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
That must mean the progression rules are in effect for all AMA classes,
right? Including 406?
Tim Taylor wrote:
FAI is class 406, an AMA Class, Just checked the rule book.
http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf
Fred Huber <mailto:fhhuber at clearwire.net> <fhhuber at clearwire.net> wrote:
In that case... there's no support for offering FAI class at an AMA
sanctioned event.
Its not an AMA class. Have a seperate contest.
That worm turns 2 ways.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Thompson <mailto:mrandmrst at comcast.net>
To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
The bottom line is this...the AMA has 4 classes, the top level being
Masters. FAI is an international F3A class, not a AMA class..."in my
opinion" there can never be a mandatory progression from an AMA SIG class to
an international class.
As for your question, my logic should, and does, apply to every class
controlled by the AMA...which is what I'm talking about.
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gayer <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
Why does this apply to every class except Masters??
Aren't there better flyers available to learn from in FAI? :)
John
Ken Thompson wrote:
Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!! You will only get better if you do
one of two things, 1. Fly against people that are better than you,
obviously paying attention to their flights. 2. Have a pilot that is
better than you willing to coach you. I've been blessed with having
both...any contest I go to in D6 will have pilots that are better than I
am, and I have Archie as a coach to help me through the little things.
BTW: I fully expect to be flying Masters in 6 or 7 years. That will put me
at 54 or 55 years old when I make the move. Personally I have no desire
to go to contests and come in 1st or 2nd on a regular basis, AND stay in
that class...it simply won't make me a better pilot. My goal is to
get better every year, with hard work and patience, it will happen.
Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: <mailto:rcpattern at stx.rr.com>
<rcpattern at stx.rr.com> To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
More flexibility in class selection?
I take exception to this. FAI and Masters are not related. I have been
flying masters several years, finishing as high as second this year at the
NATS. Yes, I'm coming back next year in Masters. I have a goal of winning
the nats before I move up. I can be realistic...at some point with enough
practice I might be able to crack the finals in FAI at the NATS, but I'm
smart enough to know that realistically winning FAI isnt going to happen.
I
would also argue that the guys that have been flying masters for years,
just raise the bar. I know in different areas I've flown around the
country, these are the guys that make guys fly better. Show up in District
6 sometime, and fly Masters...you'll definitely get better. 6 of the top
10 at the NATS were D6. The means, guy that finished in the top 10 at the
NATS in what is probably top to bottom the most competitive class have
trouble getting wood at a local contest. I can promise you though, the
guys that fly here have greatly improved their flying than they would have
in other parts of the country. Glen has set the bar here for a while, and
I know the other guys are pushing to catch him, and if you look now at
local contest scores, it is getting closer. At any given time down here in
D6, I'd say 6 or 7 guys can take a round in masters. Now that makes it
fun. I know when I was flying in D4 last year. Every contest I went to,
was Verne K, and
Steve Miller....I knew I'd better put up great flights every flight and
this makes you a better pilot. I think you should try moving up...take a
year of the low 900's, and then see where you are the following year. I
bet you start moving up and before you know it you would be right there in
the mix. This is a competitive activity and the only way you improve is
flying against people who are better than you. Arch ----- Original
Message ----- From: John Gayer <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
<jgghome at comcast.net> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:41 pm Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection? To: NSRCA
Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Ron, I take exception to those rules. There should be only one destination
class. Why shouldn't
there be a mandatory move from Masters to F3A? They are just two patterns
with a natural progression as there is between Advanced and Masters.
Parking and sandbagging is a mental state, not a rules violation. john
Ron Van Putte wrote:
The Master class is the top AMA class and there is no mandatory
move
from the Master class to F3A, so how can there be "parkers" or
"sandbaggers"? Ron Van Putte On Aug 15, 2007, at 2:10 PM, John Gayer
wrote:
how about changing the AMA advancemant rule and keep it very
simple?>> Your first contest of the year will determine your class for the
year. You may go up one class at any time during
the year but
may not
go back down during the year. At the start of the next year you
may
drop back one class at your option, stay where you are or go up
a class.
This is simple enough that your fellow competitiors will know
if you
are following the rules. It will also be up to your fellow competitiors to
insure that you are not sandbagging. I also feel strongly that sandbagging
in Masters should not be allowed. If you disregard Sportsman, then
half of the classes
allow
parking. Obviously, F3A has to be a parking lot but I see no
reason
to allow this behavior in Masters. As a competant advanced
pilot of
somewhat advanced years, I have very little interest in moving
to
Masters in order to spend the rest of my pattern years trying
to
break 900 against the
parkers. I fail to see the logic in having two destination classes.
Shouldn't
we all aspire to progress to FAI? The current Masters schedule
is
designed as a stepping stone to Masters. Let's use it that way. John
Gayer NSRCA 632 BUDDYonRC at aol.com wrote:
There was a proposal on the last rules cycle that would allow
a
person to move up and test his ability then move back if he
had not
attained the skills required for the higher class. I
personally
think it is a good idea and I also see no need for the point
system
like someone said if someone abuses the privilege we can
solicit
Earl and four other guys his size to take him behind the barn
and
splain to him why he will be moving up. I believe peer
pressure is
all the control we need. I think this is worth a try. For those who have
the ability and desire to achieve a spot at
the
top I don't see that we have a problem. Buddy
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