[NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?

Gene Maurice gene.maurice at sgmservice.com
Wed Aug 15 17:39:18 AKDT 2007


Actually, my suggestion was that folks read the rulebook themselves. I only
provided information relative to the immediate discussion. It can be
downloaded from
http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf

 

Gene Maurice

gene.mauirce at sgmservice.com

Plano, Texas

AMA 3408 NSRCA 877

  _____  

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Fred Huber
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:50 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?

 

May as well post the section about how many points require a move up (int
-adv... adv-master) too....  That seems to be missing.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Gene <mailto:gene.maurice at sgmservice.com>  Maurice 

To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:35 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?

 

For those that haven't read it, please read the rulebook.

 

The applicable sections are:

 

7. Pattern event classes. The Pattern event shall

be divided into five (5) classes. The first four (4)

shall (in order of increasing difficulty) be

referred to as Sportsman, Intermediate,

Advanced, and Masters. The fifth class shall be

referred to as the FAI class. The Sportsman class

is supplemental (see Supplemental and

Provisional Rules, page 2). Competitors must be

advised prior to the start of the contest of any

planned deviations from standard AMA rules

pertaining to the events they have entered.

 

8.2. A contestant will be mandatorily

advanced through the classes as follows: A flier

must move out of the Sportsman class at the end

of that calendar year if he places first, second, or

third, and above at least four (4) other fliers

(having recorded an official flight) in any

sanctioned Pattern class contest. For

Intermediate and Advanced fliers, advancement

takes place through the accumulation of points.

In these classes, contestants receive points

according to their finishing place in every contest

they compete in. For fliers finishing third or

below in a given contest, they will receive points

equal to the number of official (having recorded

an official flight) fliers they beat. The second

place winner will receive points equal to twice

the number of official fliers he beats, and the

first place winner will receive points equal to

three times the number of official fliers he beats.

The points each contestant receives go into his

cumulative record.

 

 

8.2.5. There is no mandatory

advancement into FAI from the Masters class.

Contestants may enter their current AMA class

or the FAI class at any contest but not both.

 

8.3. Each Pattern contestant is

responsible for maintaining an accurate record of

his own classification points. Handy wallet size

Classification Advancement Record forms are

available upon request from AMA HQ; please

include a preaddressed and stamped return

envelope. CDs of meets having RC Pattern

events are also provided with a small supply of

such forms.

 

 

Gene Maurice

gene.mauirce at sgmservice.com

Plano, Texas

AMA 3408 NSRCA 877


  _____  


From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Gayer
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:13 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?

 

That must mean the progression rules are in effect for all AMA classes,
right? Including 406?

Tim Taylor wrote: 

FAI is class 406, an AMA Class, Just checked the rule book.

 

 http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf

Fred Huber  <mailto:fhhuber at clearwire.net> <fhhuber at clearwire.net> wrote:

In that case... there's no support for offering FAI class at an AMA
sanctioned event.  

 

Its not an AMA class.  Have a seperate contest.

 

That worm turns 2 ways.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Ken Thompson <mailto:mrandmrst at comcast.net>  

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:57 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?

 

The bottom line is this...the AMA has 4 classes, the top level being
Masters.  FAI is an international F3A class, not a AMA class..."in my
opinion" there can never be a mandatory progression from an AMA SIG class to
an international class.

 

As for your question, my logic should, and does, apply to every class
controlled by the AMA...which is what I'm talking about.

 

Ken

----- Original Message ----- 

From: John Gayer <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>  

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:38 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?

 

Why does this apply to every class except Masters?? 
Aren't there better flyers available to learn from in FAI?  :)
John

Ken Thompson wrote: 

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!!    You will only get better if you do
one of two things,    1.  Fly against people that are better than you,
obviously paying attention   to their flights.    2.  Have a pilot that is
better than you willing to coach you.    I've been blessed with having
both...any contest I go to in D6 will have   pilots that are better  than I
am, and I have Archie as a coach to help me through the little   things.
BTW:  I fully expect to be flying Masters in 6 or 7 years.  That will put me
at 54 or 55 years old when I make the move.    Personally I have no desire
to go to contests and come in 1st or 2nd on a   regular basis, AND stay in
that  class...it simply won't make me a better pilot.  My goal is to
 get better   every year, with hard work and patience,  it will happen.
Ken      ----- Original Message -----   From:  <mailto:rcpattern at stx.rr.com>
<rcpattern at stx.rr.com>  To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:55 PM  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
More flexibility in class selection?        

I take exception to this.  FAI and Masters are not related.  I have  been
flying masters several years, finishing as high as second this  year at the
NATS.  Yes, I'm coming back next year in Masters.  I have  a goal of winning
the nats before I move up.  I can be realistic...at  some point with enough
practice I might be able to crack the finals in  FAI at the NATS, but I'm
smart enough to know that realistically  winning FAI isnt going to happen.
I
 would also argue that the guys  that have been flying masters for years,
just raise the bar.  I know  in different areas I've flown around the
country, these are the guys  that make guys fly better.  Show up in District
6 sometime, and fly  Masters...you'll definitely get better.  6 of the top
10 at the NATS  were D6.  The means, guy that finished in the top 10 at the
NATS in  what is probably top to bottom the most competitive class have
trouble  getting wood at a local contest.  I can promise you though, the
guys  that fly here have greatly  improved their flying than they would have
in other parts of the  country.  Glen has set the bar here for a while, and
I know the other  guys are pushing to catch him, and if you look now at
local contest  scores, it is getting closer.  At any given time down here in
D6, I'd  say 6 or 7 guys can take a round in masters.  Now that makes it
fun. I  know when I was flying in D4 last year.  Every contest I went to,
was  Verne K, and
 Steve Miller....I knew I'd better put up great flights  every flight and
this makes you a better pilot.  I think you should  try moving up...take a
year of the low 900's, and then see where you  are the following year.  I
bet you start moving up and before you know  it you would be right there in
the mix.  This is a competitive  activity and the only way you improve is
flying against people who are  better than you.    Arch      ----- Original
Message -----  From: John Gayer  <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
<jgghome at comcast.net>  Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:41 pm  Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?  To: NSRCA
Mailing List  <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>        

Ron,  I take exception to those rules. There should be only one  destination
class. Why shouldn't
 there be a mandatory move from Masters to  F3A? They  are just two patterns
with a natural progression as there is  between  Advanced and Masters.
Parking and sandbagging is a mental state, not a rules violation.  john
Ron Van Putte wrote:          

The Master class is the top AMA class and there is no mandatory          

move        

from the Master class to F3A, so how can there be "parkers" or
"sandbaggers"?    Ron Van Putte    On Aug 15, 2007, at 2:10 PM, John Gayer
wrote:            

how about changing the AMA advancemant rule and keep it very            

simple?>> Your first contest of the year will determine your class  for the


year. You may go up one class at any time during
 the year but            

may not        

go back down during the year. At the start of the next year you            

may        

drop back one class at your option, stay where you are or go up            

a class.        

This is simple enough that your fellow competitiors will know            

if you        

are following the rules. It will also be up to your fellow  competitiors to
insure that you are not sandbagging.  I also feel strongly that sandbagging
in Masters should not be  allowed. If you disregard Sportsman, then
 half of the classes            

allow        

parking. Obviously, F3A has to be a parking lot but I see no            

reason        

to allow this behavior in Masters. As a competant advanced            

pilot of        

somewhat advanced years, I have very little interest in moving            

to        

Masters in order to spend the rest of my pattern years trying            

to        

break 900 against the
 parkers.  I fail to see the logic in having two destination classes.


Shouldn't        

we all aspire to progress to FAI? The current Masters schedule            

is        

designed as a stepping stone to Masters. Let's use it that way.    John
Gayer  NSRCA 632      BUDDYonRC at aol.com wrote:              

There was a proposal on the last rules cycle that would allow              

a        

person to move up and test his ability then move back if he             
 

had not        

attained the skills required for the higher class.  I              

personally        

think it is a good idea and I also see no need for the point              

system        

like someone said if someone abuses the privilege we can              

solicit        

Earl and four other guys his size to take him behind the barn             
 

and        

splain to him why he will be moving up. I believe peer              

pressure is        

all the control we need.  I think this is worth a try.  For those who have
the ability and desire to achieve a spot at              

the        

top I don't see that we have a problem.  Buddy
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