[NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters2009Sequencediscussionagain...

Mike Hester kerlock at comcast.net
Tue Aug 14 15:48:53 AKDT 2007 

I'm all for that idea Keith!

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Black" <tkeithblack at gmail.com>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the 
Masters2009Sequencediscussionagain...


> How about this approach. Get rid of required advancement completely and 
> let
> everyone fly the class they feel comfortable with. If anyone is unduly
> sandbagging and refuses to move up get all the competitors in that class 
> to
> take them "out back" and convince them to move up with whatever approach
> works.
>
> Clearly this is a tong in cheek, but we'd probably alienate, and loose,
> fewer pilots with this method.
>
> Keith
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Hester" <kerlock at comcast.net>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters
> 2009Sequencediscussionagain...
>
>
>> I like that idea. I don't think anyone could call "sandbagging" on one
> year.
>>
>> I've never really seen this as a problem anyway. (sandbagging) Maybe in
>> another time and place it was a problem of some kind, but nowadays, I 
>> just
>> don't see it. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing. You KNOW if somebody
>> "should" move up, and they do too.
>>
>> In Jon's case I know exactly what he means. He's a fantastic pilot no
> doubt.
>> But having just moved to masters myself, from the OLD advanced pattern
> (MUCH
>> more difficult), I can see clearly exactly what he's looking at. It's not
>> too far from moving from intermediate to masters. And what I HATE is that
>> because of an arbitrary points system, he feels he has to sit out some
>> really fantastic contests coming up the rest of this year, and we don't
> get
>> his company.
>>
>> I do really think the points system needs to be looked at again. It was
>> written in another time when the average contest attendance was 
>> different,
>> with a number of other things. Here's the rub. You go to a contest, and
> the
>> guys you normally compete against are not there. For whatever reason, you
>> get a lot of entrants in your class that have been out of pattern for a
>> while, SPA pilots just playing with something different, and in general, 
>> a
>> lot of people that you are going to beat. But in relation to what you
>> normally fly against, it's not the same.
>>
>> Now you win of course, and get 3x the points. OOPS!!! if that happens a
> few
>> times, you're pointed right into the next class, where you just aren't
>> ready....yet. People learn at different rates. Some hot dogs spend one
>> season in each class, dominating all the way to the top. And some others
>> just take more time and need to spend more than one season (sometimes 
>> more
>> than 2) to break the barriers of the more complicated stuff. The
>> contributing factors are time to devote to practice, sometimes age,
> personal
>> learning ability, coaching or lack thereof, and just plain luck.
>>
>> However the way it is set up, the guy that spends the money and time to 
>> go
>> to the most contests (and hence a VERY valuable asset to pattern in
> general)
>> is at a severe disadvantage if he is not one of the one class per year
> guys.
>> This sucks.
>>
>> That's my 2 cents, and I'm not positive what the answer is.
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jon Lowe" <jonlowe at aol.com>
>> To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
>> discussionagain...
>>
>>
>> > Could I fly it, sure.  But have I gotten what I need out of advanced?
>> > Not in my opinion.  Until I can nail a 4 point roll every time, until I
>> > can nail the rolling triangle every time, until I learn how to hand
>> > outside snap in the avalanch, I don't feel I'm ready.  I gauged my self
>> > against the best the Nats had to offer in advanced, and I proved to
>> > myself I'm not ready.
>> >
>> > I was one of those who entered my first AMA Sportsman contest at the
>> > end of the season, and won, due to a variety of reasons, but mailnly
>> > due the District points leader having engine problems.  I had to move
>> > up to intermediate, but I still hadn't gotten the basics down.  I
>> > struggled the first year, but did better and won the district
>> > championship the second.
>> >
>> > I've got an idea about the points that would make things easier:  Leave
>> > the total at 100, but say a competitor can stay in a particular class
>> > at least two years in spite of his points total.  That would take care
>> > of the large district problem, but force a move after two years if the
>> > competitor pointed out.
>> >
>> >
>> > Jon Lowe
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Dr. Mike Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>
>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> > Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 7:26 am
>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
>> > discussionagain...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Jon,
>> > Fly Masters after this year.  You can do it.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Jon Lowe" <jonlowe at aol.com>
>> > To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 3:42 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
>> > discussionagain...
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Glen,
>> >> You are spot on.  I have competed in Advanced just this season, and
>> >> have 70 points with several district contests left in 2007.  I
>> > finished
>> >> 5th at the Nats, but was never really in contention to finish higher.
>> >> District 3 has a lot of competitors in advanced.  I'm a decent but not
>> >> great pilot in advanced right now, so I've gathered more points than I
>> >> would have in a smaller district. Do I feel at all ready to move to
>> >> Masters?  Absolutely not.  Therefore, I am going to sit out contests
>> >> this year so I don't point out.  Or I might fly the FAI P07 at a
>> > couple
>> >> of contests just for giggles.  The jump right now between Advanced and
>> >> Masters is just too big right now for me, and the current advanced
>> >> pattern does not properly prepare you for Masters.
>> >>
>> >> Jon Lowe
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Glen Watson <gwatson11 at houston.rr.com>
>> >> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> >> Sent: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:43 am
>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
>> >> discussionagain...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Is the issue that competitors are forced by the current AMA
>> > regulations
>> >> to
>> >> move up thru the classes via a point system whether a competitor feels
>> >> ready
>> >> or not?
>> >>
>> >> Just mastering a maneuver is not enough.  Being able to manage
>> >> positioning
>> >> throughout an entire sequence regardless of weather conditions is a
>> >> major
>> >> task which becomes more challenging as maneuver complexity and
>> >> difficultly
>> >> increases.  A good example is the Figure M.  I witnessed many
>> >> competitors
>> >> during the prelims at the NATS not able to sustain proper track and
>> >> positioning in the cross/quartering winds we experienced. They would
>> >> begin
>> >> at 150-175 meters and finish at 80 meters from being blown in.
>> >> Practice can
>> >> address this however as I read here in previous posts not all have the
>> >> time
>> >> they wish to practice.
>> >>
>> >> The current point system for Intermediate and Advanced is based on a 4
>> >> year
>> >> cumulative total although one could point out in a single year from
>> >> attending enough well attended contests. A potential issue here in
>> >> District
>> >> 6 for example. Does this make someone ready for the next class?
>> >>
>> >> If a pattern enthusiast has limited time to enable them to be
>> >> comfortable
>> >> flying a particular class why make it mandatory to move up.  If the
>> >> point
>> >> system criterion was revised in such a manner to reset each year and
>> >> force
>> >> only top consistent place finishers to move up that would provide more
>> >> time
>> >> for those with limit time to hone the skills necessary to be
>> > comfortable
>> >> moving on to the next class.  In addition I feel this raises the
>> >> competitive
>> >> bar in Intermediate and Advanced having more experience competitors
>> >> within
>> >> the ranks.
>> >>
>> >> Glen
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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