[NSRCA-discussion] Points system

Tue Aug 14 12:05:32 AKDT 2007

JON, ERIC ,BRIAN MOVE UP,MARCIO STAY PUT, NOW I AM GOOD ENOUGH TO FLY
ADVANCED!!!!!!!!!!!!

GARY

________________________________

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Woodward,
Jim
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 2:43 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Points system

I really don't think getting people to advance in the system is a
problem for pattern.  Nor is it unfair.  The system must represent a
fair deal for the majority.  Referencing Jon L. since he has posted on
this thread - Jon is the "pattern-animal" for D3 and hit every contest
last year.  He is a very good pilot and growing in skill, but his level
of participation and attendance far exceeds the average pattern guy
(including myself right now).  However in 2002 I think I attended 14
contests (D7) and in 2003 I attended 12 contests (D7).  People move up
basically because they want to challenge them selves more.  

Instead of looking at the system as a way to ensure people advance, look
at it as a way to ensure the "competitor-group" in each class is
appropriately balanced.  By in large our system works pretty good.  At
the awards ceremony's, when people get tired of the same guy winning, or
someone winning that is exhibiting an exceptional level of skill versus
that competitor group, guys start chanting 'move-up' (or move-away in
some cases, FAI :-) ).  

Masters class is a eclectic group of flyers that include: 1. Talent
moving through on the way to FAI, 2.  Talented Pilots on the upper end
of the class and whose true potential may be limited by practice time,
etc., 3.  Appropriately classed pilots 4,  Pilots moving from Advanced
into Masters and still on the learning curve, and 5., "long-timers" in
the class who are there for all kinds of various reasons, but whose
flying is maybe 200 points lower than the round winners or so.  I don't
think it will be at all possible to create a sequence that is going to
make everybody happy given the diversity off this class.  However, a
difficulty level slightly less that FAI is right to my thinking.  

If anyone has a heart-burn for being stuck in Masters, or any class for
that matter, I'm sure it would take nothing but a letter to the District
VP asking to move down in a class if they feel they are no longer
appropriately classed, or feel that moving up was a mistake.   People
like being in Masters for all kinds of reasons:  Challenge, Mystique,
experience, pride, etc.  However, it is fun to be in the hunt too and it
is not wrong for guys to shuffle classes every once in a while to make
it more of an enriching (fun) experience - that is why we do this right?

Just to pop in a point of difference between IMAC and Pattern - Pattern
is obviously top heavy with Masters being the largest class typically.
IMAC has the opposite problem, with guys chcosing to stay in Sportsman
or Intermediate.  Many reasons are given for this, but over two seasons
it is pretty obvious to me that there are some folks abusing that system
a bit as they demonstrate the talent to fly a higher class (to my
opinion).  In pattern, folks generally choose to move up long before
they would have poitned out.  

Thanks,

Jim W.

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From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of twtaylor
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 3:21 PM
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Points system

Here's an Idea I got when I read RVP's post.

What if we gave the lower classes 200 points then 300 in advance then
400 to masters. Start deducting from there and when you get to Zero you
move up? Wouldn't this give the guys that don't fly often or against
many the time to hone their skills before moving up?

Pros Cons?

________________________________

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob
Richards
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 2:36 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Points system

If a person finished 1st or 2nd at every contest, and there were only 3
people in the class, there is not as much of a need for this person to
advance. OTOH, if this person consistently finished 1st out of 20, I'd
say it is time for this person to move up. Isn't that the way the point
system is structured now?

Bob R.

Ken Thompson <mrandmrst at comcast.net> wrote:

	Point system or not, if someone is finishing in the top 1 or 2
at every local event, it's time to move up.  And like you said, the
heckling would be unbearable ;-)

	Ken

		----- Original Message ----- 

		From: Mark Atwood <mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>  

		To: NSRCA Mailing List
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

		Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:13 AM

		Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Points system

		You must have missed my earlier post...copied here...

		Why do we have one? (point system)

		Not to play devils advocate but do we really have that
many people trying to "cheat" to take home an extra plaque?  Yeah, some
people hang around a class a little longer than others, but I don't ever
recall someone staying beyond the point where peer pressure failed, and
we had to rely on an un-enforced point system to get the job done.

		I mean lets face it...if there's a guy just tearing up
the advanced circuit...winning everything in his path, A) he's going to
get pretty bored with that at some point B) he's going to get heckled to
DEATH at some point from the Master's guys calling him chicken since
he's clearly afraid to compete against kids his own size :)  and C) and
this is a big "C"...  Who cares??  If I'm flying Advanced against him
and continually having my A$$ handed to me...then apparently there's
room for my flying to improve.  I can choose to improve it staying in
Advanced until either the aforementioned sandbagger moves up and I can
claim victory with my inferior flying against now inferior competition,
OR I can choose to bypass all together and move to Masters and get a new
challenge having never won the pinnacle of the previous class, but
feeling confident in my own abilities.

		MORE importantly...if I fly for fun?  Which I really
think about 50% of the flyers in pattern do, then I can hang at whatever
level challenges me, provides me with the best "reward" level for my
time and investment, and maximize my "fun".  

		I think the "point" system should be little more than a
guideline for the avid competitor who's goal is to move through the
classes, gain proficiency, and who's target is winning in FAI.  It's a
guideline to know when it's maybe time to move up, to prevent moving too
early, and yet stay on a good course for becoming the best.

		For the rest, I think it's a non issue.

		I'm an avid golfer...I suck, but I'm avid.  My handicap
says I should be playing from the blue tees on most courses...  But on a
given day, I'd much rather go out and shoot an 82 from the whites, than
post an 86 from the Blues.  Just my preference...it's more fun.    

		My .02

		-Mark

________________________________

		On 8/14/07 11:16 AM, "twtaylor" <twtaylor at ftc-i.net>
wrote:

		Just to break this issue out to a thread of it's own.
Maybe we can keep this one on topic.

		Any ideas on a better system?

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