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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=944100420-14082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>JON, ERIC ,BRIAN MOVE UP,MARCIO STAY PUT, NOW I AM GOOD
ENOUGH TO FLY ADVANCED!!!!!!!!!!!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=944100420-14082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=944100420-14082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=944100420-14082007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>GARY</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Woodward,
Jim<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 14, 2007 2:43 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Points
system<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I really don’t think
getting people to advance in the system is a problem for pattern. Nor is
it unfair. The system must represent a fair deal for the majority.
Referencing Jon L. since he has posted on this thread – Jon is the
“pattern-animal” for D3 and hit every contest last year. He is a very good
pilot and growing in skill, but his level of participation and attendance far
exceeds the average pattern guy (including myself right now). However in
2002 I think I attended 14 contests (D7) and in 2003 I attended 12 contests
(D7). People move up basically because they want to challenge them selves
more. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Instead of looking at
the system as a way to ensure people advance, look at it as a way to ensure the
“competitor-group” in each class is appropriately balanced. By in large
our system works pretty good. At the awards ceremony’s, when people get
tired of the same guy winning, or someone winning that is exhibiting an
exceptional level of skill versus that competitor group, guys start chanting
‘move-up’ (or move-away in some cases, FAI </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> ).
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Masters class is a
eclectic group of flyers that include: 1. Talent moving through on the way to
FAI, 2. Talented Pilots on the upper end of the class and whose true
potential may be limited by practice time, etc., 3. Appropriately classed
pilots 4, Pilots moving from Advanced into Masters and still on the
learning curve, and 5., “long-timers” in the class who are there for all kinds
of various reasons, but whose flying is maybe 200 points lower than the round
winners or so. I don’t think it will be at all possible to create a
sequence that is going to make everybody happy given the diversity off this
class. However, a difficulty level slightly less that FAI is right to my
thinking. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If anyone has a
heart-burn for being stuck in Masters, or any class for that matter, I‘m sure it
would take nothing but a letter to the District VP asking to move down in a
class if they feel they are no longer appropriately classed, or feel that moving
up was a mistake. People like being in Masters for all kinds of
reasons: Challenge, Mystique, experience, pride, etc. However, it is
fun to be in the hunt too and it is not wrong for guys to shuffle classes every
once in a while to make it more of an enriching (fun) experience – that is why
we do this right? <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="AvantGarde Bk BT" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'AvantGarde Bk BT'">Just to
pop in a point of difference between IMAC and Pattern – Pattern is obviously top
heavy with Masters being the largest class typically. IMAC has the
opposite problem, with guys chcosing to stay in Sportsman or Intermediate.
Many reasons are given for this, but over two seasons it is pretty obvious to me
that there are some folks abusing that system a bit as they demonstrate the
talent to fly a higher class (to my opinion). In pattern, folks generally
choose to move up long before they would have poitned out.
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="AvantGarde Bk BT" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'AvantGarde Bk BT'">Thanks,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><FONT face="AvantGarde Bk BT"
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'AvantGarde Bk BT'">Jim</SPAN></FONT></ST1:PERSONNAME><FONT
face="AvantGarde Bk BT" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'AvantGarde Bk BT'">
W.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
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face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
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<DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>twtaylor<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 14, 2007 3:21
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> '<ST1:PERSONNAME
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</ST1:PERSONNAME>'<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Points
system</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Here’s an Idea I got
when I read RVP’s post.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What if we gave the
lower classes 200 points then 300 in advance then 400 to masters. Start
deducting from there and when you get to Zero you move up? Wouldn’t this give
the guys that don’t fly often or against many the time to hone their skills
before moving up?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Pros
Cons?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
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face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
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</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob Richards<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 14, 2007 2:36
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <ST1:PERSONNAME
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</ST1:PERSONNAME><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Points
system</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">If a person finished 1st or 2nd at every contest, and
there were only 3 people in the class, there is not as much of a need for this
person to advance. OTOH, if this person consistently finished 1st out of 20, I'd
say it is time for this person to move up. Isn't that the way the point system
is structured now?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bob R.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">Ken Thompson
<mrandmrst@comcast.net></SPAN></I></B>
wrote:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Point system or not, if someone is
finishing in the top 1 or 2 at every local event, it's time to move
up. And like you said, the heckling would be unbearable
;-)</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ken</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message -----
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=atwoodm@paragon-inc.com href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">Mark
Atwood</A> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:13 AM<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Points system<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">You must have missed my earlier
post...copied here...<BR><BR><BR>Why do we have one? (point
system)<BR><BR>Not to play devils advocate but do we really have that many
people trying to “cheat” to take home an extra plaque? Yeah, some
people hang around a class a little longer than others, but I don’t ever
recall someone staying beyond the point where peer pressure failed, and we
had to rely on an un-enforced point system to get the job done.<BR><BR>I
mean lets face it...if there’s a guy just tearing up the advanced
circuit...winning everything in his path, A) he’s going to get pretty bored
with that at some point B) he’s going to get heckled to DEATH at some point
from the Master’s guys calling him chicken since he’s clearly afraid to
compete against kids his own size :) and C) and this is a big “C”...
Who cares?? If I’m flying Advanced against him and continually
having my A$$ handed to me...then apparently there’s room for my flying to
improve. I can choose to improve it staying in Advanced until either
the aforementioned sandbagger moves up and I can claim victory with my
inferior flying against now inferior competition, OR I can choose to bypass
all together and move to Masters and get a new challenge having never won
the pinnacle of the previous class, but feeling confident in my own
abilities.<BR><BR>MORE importantly...if I fly for fun? Which I really
think about 50% of the flyers in pattern do, then I can hang at whatever
level challenges me, provides me with the best “reward” level for my time
and investment, and maximize my “fun”. <BR><BR>I think the “point”
system should be little more than a guideline for the avid competitor who’s
goal is to move through the classes, gain proficiency, and who’s target is
winning in FAI. It’s a guideline to know when it’s maybe time to move
up, to prevent moving too early, and yet stay on a good course for becoming
the best.<BR><BR>For the rest, I think it’s a non issue.<BR><BR>I’m an avid
golfer...I suck, but I’m avid. My handicap says I should be playing
from the blue tees on most courses... But on a given day, I’d much
rather go out and shoot an 82 from the whites, than post an 86 from the
Blues. Just my preference...it’s more fun.
<BR><BR>My .02<BR><BR>-Mark<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Verdana
size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><BR><BR>On 8/14/07
11:16 AM, "twtaylor" <twtaylor@ftc-i.net>
wrote:</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Just to break this issue out to
a thread of it’s own. Maybe we can keep this one on topic.<BR> <BR>Any
ideas on a better system?</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<HR align=center width="95%" SIZE=3>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
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