[NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequencediscussionagain...

Tue Aug 14 06:54:27 AKDT 2007

Mike/Jon this brings forth more information/opinions for the discussion,
good on ya. I too see a problem with the points system, now let's try to
figure a better way. Just because we've always done it this way doesn't make
it right, or wrong for that matter.

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hester
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:33 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters
2009Sequencediscussionagain...

I like that idea. I don't think anyone could call "sandbagging" on one year.

I've never really seen this as a problem anyway. (sandbagging) Maybe in 
another time and place it was a problem of some kind, but nowadays, I just 
don't see it. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing. You KNOW if somebody 
"should" move up, and they do too.

In Jon's case I know exactly what he means. He's a fantastic pilot no doubt.

But having just moved to masters myself, from the OLD advanced pattern (MUCH

more difficult), I can see clearly exactly what he's looking at. It's not 
too far from moving from intermediate to masters. And what I HATE is that 
because of an arbitrary points system, he feels he has to sit out some 
really fantastic contests coming up the rest of this year, and we don't get 
his company.

I do really think the points system needs to be looked at again. It was 
written in another time when the average contest attendance was different, 
with a number of other things. Here's the rub. You go to a contest, and the 
guys you normally compete against are not there. For whatever reason, you 
get a lot of entrants in your class that have been out of pattern for a 
while, SPA pilots just playing with something different, and in general, a 
lot of people that you are going to beat. But in relation to what you 
normally fly against, it's not the same.

Now you win of course, and get 3x the points. OOPS!!! if that happens a few 
times, you're pointed right into the next class, where you just aren't 
ready....yet. People learn at different rates. Some hot dogs spend one 
season in each class, dominating all the way to the top. And some others 
just take more time and need to spend more than one season (sometimes more 
than 2) to break the barriers of the more complicated stuff. The 
contributing factors are time to devote to practice, sometimes age, personal

learning ability, coaching or lack thereof, and just plain luck.

However the way it is set up, the guy that spends the money and time to go 
to the most contests (and hence a VERY valuable asset to pattern in general)

is at a severe disadvantage if he is not one of the one class per year guys.

This sucks.

That's my 2 cents, and I'm not positive what the answer is.

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Lowe" <jonlowe at aol.com>
To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence 
discussionagain...

> Could I fly it, sure.  But have I gotten what I need out of advanced?
> Not in my opinion.  Until I can nail a 4 point roll every time, until I
> can nail the rolling triangle every time, until I learn how to hand
> outside snap in the avalanch, I don't feel I'm ready.  I gauged my self
> against the best the Nats had to offer in advanced, and I proved to
> myself I'm not ready.
>
> I was one of those who entered my first AMA Sportsman contest at the
> end of the season, and won, due to a variety of reasons, but mailnly
> due the District points leader having engine problems.  I had to move
> up to intermediate, but I still hadn't gotten the basics down.  I
> struggled the first year, but did better and won the district
> championship the second.
>
> I've got an idea about the points that would make things easier:  Leave
> the total at 100, but say a competitor can stay in a particular class
> at least two years in spite of his points total.  That would take care
> of the large district problem, but force a move after two years if the
> competitor pointed out.
>
>
> Jon Lowe
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dr. Mike Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 7:26 am
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
> discussionagain...
>
>
>
> Jon,
> Fly Masters after this year.  You can do it.
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jon Lowe" <jonlowe at aol.com>
> To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 3:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
> discussionagain...
>
>
>>
>> Glen,
>> You are spot on.  I have competed in Advanced just this season, and
>> have 70 points with several district contests left in 2007.  I
> finished
>> 5th at the Nats, but was never really in contention to finish higher.
>> District 3 has a lot of competitors in advanced.  I'm a decent but not
>> great pilot in advanced right now, so I've gathered more points than I
>> would have in a smaller district. Do I feel at all ready to move to
>> Masters?  Absolutely not.  Therefore, I am going to sit out contests
>> this year so I don't point out.  Or I might fly the FAI P07 at a
> couple
>> of contests just for giggles.  The jump right now between Advanced and
>> Masters is just too big right now for me, and the current advanced
>> pattern does not properly prepare you for Masters.
>>
>> Jon Lowe
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Glen Watson <gwatson11 at houston.rr.com>
>> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:43 am
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
>> discussionagain...
>>
>>
>>
>> Is the issue that competitors are forced by the current AMA
> regulations
>> to
>> move up thru the classes via a point system whether a competitor feels
>> ready
>> or not?
>>
>> Just mastering a maneuver is not enough.  Being able to manage
>> positioning
>> throughout an entire sequence regardless of weather conditions is a
>> major
>> task which becomes more challenging as maneuver complexity and
>> difficultly
>> increases.  A good example is the Figure M.  I witnessed many
>> competitors
>> during the prelims at the NATS not able to sustain proper track and
>> positioning in the cross/quartering winds we experienced. They would
>> begin
>> at 150-175 meters and finish at 80 meters from being blown in.
>> Practice can
>> address this however as I read here in previous posts not all have the
>> time
>> they wish to practice.
>>
>> The current point system for Intermediate and Advanced is based on a 4
>> year
>> cumulative total although one could point out in a single year from
>> attending enough well attended contests. A potential issue here in
>> District
>> 6 for example. Does this make someone ready for the next class?
>>
>> If a pattern enthusiast has limited time to enable them to be
>> comfortable
>> flying a particular class why make it mandatory to move up.  If the
>> point
>> system criterion was revised in such a manner to reset each year and
>> force
>> only top consistent place finishers to move up that would provide more
>> time
>> for those with limit time to hone the skills necessary to be
> comfortable
>> moving on to the next class.  In addition I feel this raises the
>> competitive
>> bar in Intermediate and Advanced having more experience competitors
>> within
>> the ranks.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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