[NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence discussionagain...
Glen Watson
gwatson11 at houston.rr.com
Mon Aug 13 08:43:35 AKDT 2007
Is the issue that competitors are forced by the current AMA regulations to
move up thru the classes via a point system whether a competitor feels ready
or not?
Just mastering a maneuver is not enough. Being able to manage positioning
throughout an entire sequence regardless of weather conditions is a major
task which becomes more challenging as maneuver complexity and difficultly
increases. A good example is the Figure M. I witnessed many competitors
during the prelims at the NATS not able to sustain proper track and
positioning in the cross/quartering winds we experienced. They would begin
at 150-175 meters and finish at 80 meters from being blown in. Practice can
address this however as I read here in previous posts not all have the time
they wish to practice.
The current point system for Intermediate and Advanced is based on a 4 year
cumulative total although one could point out in a single year from
attending enough well attended contests. A potential issue here in District
6 for example. Does this make someone ready for the next class?
If a pattern enthusiast has limited time to enable them to be comfortable
flying a particular class why make it mandatory to move up. If the point
system criterion was revised in such a manner to reset each year and force
only top consistent place finishers to move up that would provide more time
for those with limit time to hone the skills necessary to be comfortable
moving on to the next class. In addition I feel this raises the competitive
bar in Intermediate and Advanced having more experience competitors within
the ranks.
Glen
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony
Romano
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 7:56 AM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
discussionagain...
Very timely Lance. I think Joe has it right on difficulty and design.
Masters should lead to FAI. The current window on advancement points keeps
pilots moving to their correct level.
My question is why are so few Masters pilots willing to give FAI a shot? The
two rollers in the P are not impossible and IMHO much easier than circles.
We have had an issue in D1 were, like many, Masters is the largest class.
Just this weekend the NEVRC worked very hard to put on a great contest. At
the pilots meeting Masters made up half of the contestants with one FAI
pilot. Myself and one other Masters pilot decided to give FAI a try and help
balance the classes. I didn't think judges could subtract that fast but I
had a blast. Since my scores aren't much higher in Masters I may finish the
year in FAI. Learned a ton about positioning and placement that wasn't
apparent in Masters.
Anthony
>From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at tx.rr.com>
>Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stiring up the Masters
>2009Sequencediscussionagain...
>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 11:37:44 -0500
>
>I'm interested in what people think about this question. This strikes at
>the heart of that topic: what's the difference between Masters and FAI. I
>believe the many differences should be summed up as "choices". For one
>example, "do I choose to learn 2 sequences or do I only have time for 1?".
>Therefore, on the difficuulty question, I think Masters and FAI P should
>track the same target difficulty. Jumping from Masters to FAI forces the
>pilot to accept a lot of new issues that AMA doesn't deal with. But the
>top AMA class should allow flying the same difficulty without the rest of
>the baggage.
>
>On the other hand, if Masters is not a stepping stone class to FAI then why
>have it at all? Is the baggage really that great? In practice, pilots
>usually hone their skills in Masters until they have achieved some success
>before going to FAI, but that simply has created a division based on skill
>but not difficulty. this is a tough question too, but since most contests
>I see have more in Masters than FAI (or at least equal numbers) I think our
>country supports the need for 2 classes even when the difficulty is the
>same (as it is now).
>
>However, designing sequences that actually feel equivalent in difficulty is
>very difficult. Just counting Kfactors is not enough. Equivalent KF's can
>be found in manuvers that have only straight lines and radiuses and in
>rolling manuvers. Rarely can that target be hit, so sometimes two
>sequences intended to be similar in difficulty will fly a bit different.
>One or the other may feel more difficult but over the years with multiple
>sequence cycles one should be able to say they are essentially equivalent.
>Our AMA sequences build skills so that when we get to Masters we have
>enough fundamentals to fly any sequence in the KFactor range prescribed.
>Remember, most countries don't have an AMA equivalent. If you want to fly
>pattern, you start learning FAI P patterns. It is fortunate we have our
>system so that people of all abilities can find enjoyment and those that
>have super skills can follow a road that ends at the level of their
>choosing.
>
>Right now, Masters and FAI P07 are about the same. Once we say Masters is
>a step below FAI P my guess is that most Masters pilots will feel ripped
>off.
>Since AMA exists in this country for us alone we should do what the
>majority desires, however the opinion of the currently active Masters and
>FAI competitors is of particular interest. Therefore it might be nice to
>identify your active class participation in any response you might care to
>make.
>
>--Lance
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Del K. Rykert
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stiring up the Masters 2009
>Sequencediscussionagain...
>
>
> Is the intent/purpose to still have some progress from Masters to FAI or
>to have Master at a similar complex level with the intent of some staying
>in Masters as the top out Schedule? For some advanced is the highest they
>will get.
>
> Del
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Keith Black
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:18 PM
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stiring up the Masters 2009 Sequence
>discussionagain...
>
>
> A while back Derek asked the membership if they wanted to stick with
>the 2009 Masters sequence that was proposed in 2005 or change to a newly
>designed sequence that addresses concerns some people had regarding the
>sequence. Apparently some pilots feel there are too many snaps or some such
>complaints, I'm not really sure.
>
> At the time I was not able to go fly the sequences and thus I had no
>response, however, I now have flown the sequences and have some comments.
>
> My first observation is that six of the eleven centered maneuvers are
>the same so much of the content of the patterns are identical. My second
>observation is that each sequence has maneuvers I think would be more "fun"
>or "challenging" than the other. If I had to put numbers to it I'd say
>there are three maneuvers in the 2005 proposed sequence that I'd miss if we
>went with the newly proposed schedule and six maneuvers in the new schedule
>that I'd miss if we went with the original 2005 proposed schedule.
>
> I'd also say that IMHO both of these schedules are easier than the
>2007 schedule and my initial impression was that the inverted entries have
>been reduced. I short, it seems that the schedules have been watered down
>from what we currently have.
>
> I will have no complaints flying either schedule, but if I were to
>choose between the two I'd select the newly proposed schedule; not to
>placate those that object to the 2005 proposed schedule because I feel
>there's nothing wrong with it; but because I think the newly proposed
>schedule is more interesting.
>
> Also, I'd like to comment that I feel that the Advanced schedule for
>2007 was too watered down and does not prepare pilots for the 2007 Masters
>schedule. I hope when designing the schedules we aren't trying to make
>Masters easier so the jump from Advanced is not as big. If the jump is too
>big then we should increase the level of the Advance pattern.
>
> Keith Black
>
>
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