[NSRCA-discussion] Wind correction

Sat Sep 30 10:49:50 AKDT 2006

Wind correct or not to wind correct which would you score higher?

I realize ED started this thread asking not for a rules interpretation.
However after reading a few of the comments in response to ED's question I
am wondering whether judges consider wind correction a requirement or an
option when scoring maneuvers. Or scoring someone differently who flies with
slight wind correction vs. a necessary exaggerated wind correction needed to
preserve the shape of a given maneuver.  Truth be told I began thinking
about this during the Master's final at this year's NATS where we competed
in challenging wind conditions.

Sooo.what does the rule book say about wind correction and track?

The following was clipped from the current AMA rule book.

(Track) The trajectory or flight path of the center of gravity of the model
with respect to fixed ground reference.

(Wind correction) An alteration of aircraft attitude made for the purpose of
compensating for the effects of wind drift on the track of the model. All
maneuvers in RC Aerobatics are required to be wind corrected in such a way
as to preserve the shape of the maneuver in the track of the model as
described

(Precision) Grading of maneuver precision will be based on how well the
model tracks the shape of the individual maneuver as described in section E,
Description of Maneuvers. All maneuvers in RC Aerobatics are required to be
wind corrected in such a manner as to preserve the shape and symmetry of the
maneuver in the track of the model. All straight lines, both horizontal and
vertical, will be graded on the track projected by the model. Changes in
attitude of the model to maintain a straight track will not be reason for
downgrading the maneuver.

The rules are very clear in this regard that wind correction is a
requirement.

Now let's consider the Diamond Eight in the 06 Masters sequence.  If the 45
degree legs are flown without wind correction it's impossible to present the
rolling crossover points at center.  Instead the entire maneuver would be
displaced some distance to the down wind direction.  I ask if flown without
wind how would it be possible to score higher than someone who flew with
wind correction if the other elements of the maneuver where flown properly
by both pilots i.e. radii, rolls, line length etc?

In the 07 Masters sequence there is the figure M.  Like the Diamond Eight
the maneuver center (center radius) is affected dramatically if flown
without wind correction.  If the first vertical line up and down are flown
with no or less than necessary amounts of wind correction the center radius
and entry radius end up being different sizes to adjust for centering.
Whoohoo figure M can't wait! 

Glen

  _____  

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ed Deaver
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 1:08 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wind correction

Thanx everyone. this is the discussion I was hoping for.  

There actually isn't a correct answer, just opinions to my original
question.

Ed

Earl Haury <ehaury at houston.rr.com> wrote:

It seems that crosswind conditions are of most concern to many, they
shouldn't be. Keep the nose into the wind a "nearly appropriate" amount
provides a "show" of wind compensation, while a little drift off plane is
difficult for the judge to detect. Probably the need to apply the nose to
the wind attitude during rolls creates problems for some.

The real difficult wind is that strong and parallel to the runway - this
will really mess with geometry, ground speed, and airspeed. The speed issues
have an effect control effectiveness, making it difficult to maintain radii
/ roll rates / etc.  

A view of Ed's issue might look like this: At a recent meet the wind was
strong and mostly parallel to the runway, let me tell you about the
"squares" I judged in Masters and Advanced. Those starting at the bottom
were generally entered with proper windage and attitude (to the wind)
increased as the aircraft slowed (vertical track), then the radius to the
next "horizontal" leg was 90 deg in attitude - leaving the radius track
short several degrees and the "horizontal line" climbing (a point or two
gone), the radius to the downline varied from enough to get vertical with no
wind compensation in attitude (more than 90 deg radius) to another 90 deg
attitude radius (now the downline attitude is downwind) - really bad for the
track (and another point or two gone) - very rarely did anyone compensate
for the wind at all on the downline, finally the radius to a level
horizontal line (most got level) required a more than 90 deg track radius
(another point gone) - so depending on severity of wind compensation errors
this thing is 4 - 7 before any consideration of other factors. A rarer
version was flown fast with no wind compensation on the upline - track off a
little ( 1/2 - 1 point gone), top radius OK and top line horizontal -
likewise radius to downline, downline flown fast with no wind compensation -
track is off (another point gone), bottom radius is 90+ deg to get to
horizontal (another point) and this thing scores maybe 7 to 71/2 before
other factors.

Now the guy with the 4 compares his score with the guy with the 71/2 - gee,
wind correction doesn't pay! Be very aware of the fact that both have
significant downgrades before any other errors might be downgraded - not
many squares are really square, rolls often aren't centered or the same
rate, etc. and all drive the score lower. Compensate for the wind properly
and the maneuver score goes up 2 1/2 to 6 points in this example! 

The point is that properly executed wind compensation pays big rewards!
(Note also that I use the term "compensation" instead of "correction", the
latter infers an error is already made and fixed (gotta be a downgrade there
somewhere), while compensation infers the wind forces are accommodated to
ensure proper geometry!

Earl

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Del <mailto:drykert2 at rochester.rr.com>  K. Rykert 

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:18 AM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wind correction

Ed...

    The correct answer by my definition is depends on the judge
unfortunately..  If you are flying in front of me I subtract from 10
depending on the severity of flaws I catch. Ugly versus pretty are not
primary judging factors on the judging priorities. So when you choose to fly
your maneuver pretty and your elbow competitor fly's it by the book don't
ask me why you received the lower score..  grin..

                 Del 
          nsrca - 473

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Ed Deaver <mailto:divesplat at yahoo.com>  

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:13 PM

Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Wind correction

Hey everyone.  While the season is winding down, Don Ramsey and I had an
interesting discussion this past weekend.  Am wondering what the general
consensus is.

First, let me state, judges are human and I understand that.  Also, many
judges don't know the exact wording of many rules, I understant that also.

Soooo

Will a pilot score higher if they follow the letter of the law and wind
correct perfectly, but fly an ugly manuever, or wind correct a little and
let the plane look "prettier" in a manuever?????

Lets use the first maneuver in the Master's sequence after entering the box.
Stall turn 1 1/4 rolls up, 3/4 rolls down exit inverted.  On a strong wind
day, not pulling to vertical to maintain the line doesn't look to bad (we
expect that) the 1 1/4 rolls in centered, looking good, appropriate rudder
is given to maintain a straight vertical line (again expected and usually
doesn't require much as we are at full throttle), the stall goes off without
a hitch, but do to lack of airspeed we cant the fuse and hold rudder into
the wind letting the fuse lean at a 45degree angle to maintain a straight
line (this is the part I'm curious about) until the 3/4 roll and using a
little down elevator to hold the line after the roll (again expected but not
ugly)

Everything about this manuever is done and doesn't detract from the overall
appearance of the manuever except the down line after the stall, which is
simply "UGLY"

Just curious what everyone says.  Again, I know what the rules say, and am
not interested in a rule book interpretation, but what do you think about
scoring better vs worse???

Thanx

ed

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