[NSRCA-discussion] OK it's time to stir things up. Where's thebeef?

Earl Haury ehaury at houston.rr.com
Thu Sep 28 12:58:07 AKDT 2006 

Oops!  "That's it - everything else comes out of the Team members pockets" in my earlier post isn't correct  - funds also come from the Team Manager's Fund (to which a good number of supporters contribute significantly) and the Team Members. I'm sure all the Teams truly appreciate the donations that make their participation possible.

Earl
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Earl Haury 
  To: NSRCA Mailing List 
  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OK it's time to stir things up. Where's thebeef?


  Matt

  The TS is funded by the program receipts - program entry and TS entry fees. In years of large participation there was an overage (profit) and those funds were deposited in the Team Fund, which is held by AMA and dispersed by the TS Chair for WC expenses (donations to this fund are tax deductible). The Team Manager is responsible for another, different, fund - the Team Managers fund for which he (and possible a Campaign Manager) collect donations for extra WC costs (vehicles, extra practice days, etc.) - expenditures from both funds are audited by AMA from the TM's accounting after the WC. Team Fund money (assuming there is any)  may be used for the TS - but that's less for the Team. So - there is no TS budgeted AMA money for the Nats. 

  The AMA budgets money specifically for the Teams (not selection) in an amount to cover entry / lodging / food / banquet for each team member & manager at the WC. Additionally, AMA deposits $400 into the Team Fund for each official Team Member. There are roughly 18 FAI teams and 120 members funded on a two year WC rotation - or roughly $50K for the Team Funds and roughly another $50K for WC costs. F3A is a small Team - 4 people are funded by AMA  - so roughly $3200 for an adventure that costs closer to $30K.  That's it - everything else comes out of the Team members pockets.

  There is an official AMA document entitled "Procedures Governing the Academy's Sponsorship of FAI Teams" revised November 2005. This document describes all the details and responsibilities folks involved with WC / TS activities. There's now a point system based upon performance in WC and participation in TS that requires 50 points needed for full funding (25 points gets half, miss this for 2 cycles and no support). This document is available from Lisa Johnson at AMA HQ.

  Earl

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: rcmaster199 at aol.com 
    To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
    Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:11 PM
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OK it's time to stir things up. Where's thebeef?


    Earl, Bob,

    TS is an AMA responsibility meaning it would cost the AMA some budgeted sum to support the activity. I've asked this question on the list and of Dave Brown and have not gotten satisfactory answers either way. 

    What happened to that budgeted amount of money? 

    A case could and should be made that since we are combining the TS and the Nats lately, the money that would have gone to support a separate TS tournament, should be made available to our F3A Team for expenses. They (AMA) definitely don't see it that way and prefer to default the funds back into the FAI fund in general, supporting the whole group of teams. To me, that's not good enough.

    What do you think?

    Matt

     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: ehaury at houston.rr.com
    To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
    Sent: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:29 AM
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OK it's time to stir things up. Where's thebeef?


Bob

You're correct that the FAI activities, including F3A Team Selections, is an 
AMA activity. However, F3A pattern is an NSRCA activity also and there is 
nothing to prevent the Society from providing input to the F3A Subcommittee 
via the USA rep (Chris Lakin). The committee would welcome P/F sequence 
proposal with open arms, for example.

A little history - the NSRCA was founded by F3A competitors who never 
imagined there would be an AMA / FAI pattern division (real or imagined). In 
those days pattern classes were designed as a progression to Masters class 
(as they now are), but the Masters class was F3A. That was the destination 
class and one moved there by the normal point system. Of course the NSRCA 
leadership were pretty much all F3A folks and eventually the "F3A guys run 
the show" claim became popular and these folks stepped aside to let others 
run NSRCA. For a variety of reasons F3A was relegated to "extra numerary 
status", the "Masters" name was claimed as an "AMA destination class" around 
the demise of the AMA Expert class, and NSRCA leadership began to look at 
F3A as an outside event.

NSRCA represents pattern in the US as its SIG and F3A is AMA Pattern Class 
406 - there is, and never should be, an us and them issue among our pattern 
classes - there just aren't enough of us for this type nonsense. I've 
advocated re-instating a point system move from Masters to F3A - maybe 200 
points, that would require the top Masters folks to expand their horizons 
into F3A. Yes - dual patterns (and even unknowns if one's good enough) is 
tough, some don't have the time to be competitive in this venue. Bet these 
guys would be tough in the prelims though! NSRCA is doing a much better job 
of meeting the needs of all members and of operating the Nats - the 
combining of the Nats and TS is great and benefits the Society and the FAI 
program by melding of the strengths of both organizations. The Society, as a 
pattern SIG, should make every effort to enhance this relationship.

Earl



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Kane" <getterflash at yahoo.com>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OK it's time to stir things up. Where's 
thebeef?


> Not sure.  I'm not an AMA attourney but I think the
> Team Trials is an AMA function, not an NSRCA function.
> I believe the team manager made a decision a couple of
> years ago to waive the local contest requirement.  If
> anyone has more info please chime in . . .
>
> --- mike mueller <mups1953 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>  Hey Bob is there a way to get this brought up to
>> the Board of Directors as a proposal? Mike
>>
>> Bob Kane <getterflash at yahoo.com> wrote:  AMEN !!!!
>> When I first competed 10 years ago it was a
>> thrill to meet flyers like Dave Von Linsowe, Geoff
>> Combs, Dave Patrick, . . . some of the "big" names
>> in
>> pattern at that time, competing at local contests. I
>> agree this presence is lacking at most local
>> contests
>> nowadays. I think participation in a miminum number
>> of
>> local contests should be a requirement to qualify
>> for
>> the team trials.
>>
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: mike mueller
>> > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:03 AM
>> > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OK it's time to stir
>> > things up. Where's the beef?
>> >
>> >
>> > I have an observation that I've made that
>> > disturbes me. I don't think that we are getting
>> > enough of the top notch or team worthy flyers
>> > participating on a local level.
>> > I think that in the future the team trials need
>> > to be revamped so that a flyer wanting to make the
>> > team would be required to fly in at least 3 to 5
>> > local contests per year.
>> > Here's why I think this is important. We need the
>> > top names in our sport to be part of the sport
>> from
>> > a leadership standpoint. Imagine a QQ showing up
>> to
>> > fly against Andrew at a local contest. It would be
>> > much more exciting to watch and it would therefore
>> > promote more interest. If we continue on the path
>> we
>> > are going interest in pattern will continue to
>> > slide.
>> > In the 70's when the team selection was known as
>> > the Masters you had to fly your way into the
>> contest
>> > by accumulating points on the local level. It was
>> > exciting. Were totally missing the boat with our
>> > present system.
>> > So here's the deal. Support the real pattern
>> > flyers who make the effort to support us and we
>> will
>> > all be better off. Oh and for what it's worth I
>> > think we would be better off all around if we
>> didn't
>> > allow any stickers or blatant advertising of any
>> > products in our sport. Let's get back to the
>> flyers
>> > who do it on there own without all the
>> sponsorships.
>> > All this is just what I've seen in the last 6
>> > years of flying after a 15 year absence for the
>> > hobby. TIA for letting me vent and as my budddy
>> > Bobby Satalino would say "Have a nice day"!
>> > Mike Mueller
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.
>> > Check it out.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> >
>>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion>
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>>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>> Bob Kane
>> getterflash at yahoo.com
>>
>> __________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check
>> it out. >
> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>
>
> Bob Kane
> getterflash at yahoo.com
>
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