[NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question - verticalsegments

DaveL322 at comcast.net DaveL322 at comcast.net
Wed Oct 18 07:02:13 AKDT 2006


Ron,

I think both you and Stu are correct.  The line segments must be the same unless a noted otherwise - which is certainly the case for a turnaround maneuver where an altitude adjustment is made (and this exception is noted in the rules).

Dave

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> 

> 
> On Oct 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, Stuart Chale wrote: 
> 
> > I think that this would fall under the general rules of all radii 
> > being 
> > equal and all line segments being equal. If line segments were of 
> > different 
> > lengths then the top of the maneuver and perhaps the bottom would be 
> > different in different parts of the maneuver. That would call for a 
> > downgrade. 
> 
> I don't agree that the line segments in different parts of a maneuver 
> necessarily must be the same. We can use the Stall Turns W/ Half 
> Rolls to make an altitude adjustment, so the two line would be of 
> different length and no penalty should be assessed. The Square Loop 
> must have line segments of equal length to preserve the geometry of 
> the loop. 
> 
> Ron Van Putte 
> 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of 
> > Keith Black 
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:13 AM 
> > To: NSRCA Mailing List 
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question - 
> > verticalsegments 
> > 
> > Now that we're breaking this down, I'd like some clarification on the 
> > section of the rule below that states: 
> > 
> > "The length of the vertical segments is not a judging criteria." 
> > 
> > In the strictest translation of this sentence I would say that this 
> > means 
> > that the two stall turns do not need to be the same height, 
> > however, this 
> > seems inconsistent will all other centered maneuvers where two 
> > halves of an 
> > object do have to match in size. 
> > 
> > A looser translation could be that the intention of this verbiage 
> > is to 
> > point out that a shorter 'M' should score as well as a taller 'M', but 
> > assumes that both sides should be the same height (which isn't stated 
> > anywhere). 
> > 
> > Unless otherwise clarified, I'd have to deduce that indeed the two 
> > stall 
> > turns don't have to be the same height. 
> > 
> > Keith Black 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Glen Watson" 
> > To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" 
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:10 PM 
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question 
> > 
> > 
> > Below is the Figure M description from page 79-80 of the current 
> > AMA rule 
> > book...Note the statement regarding rolls and stall turn direction are 
> > pilot's option...I then found this statement "Edit page 79-80 
> > Figure M with 
> > ¼ or ½ rolls" to include ¾ roll options" on the NSRCA page under: 
> > http://nsrca.org/competition/judging/Patterns2007 
> > 
> > Figure M with 1/4 or 1/2 Rolls: Model pulls up into one-quarter 
> > (1/4) loop 
> > to a vertical track, hesitates then performs prescribed roll, 
> > hesitates then 
> > executes a stall turn through 180 degrees, hesitates, performs 
> > prescribed roll, hesitates then executes one-half (1/2) outside 
> > loop to 
> > vertical track, hesitates, performs prescribed roll, hesitates, 
> > executes a 
> > stall turn through 180 degrees, hesitates, performs prescribed roll, 
> > hesitates then recovers with another one-quarter (1/4) loop to 
> > level flight. 
> > Direction of rolls and stall turns are pilot's option. The length 
> > of the 
> > vertical segments is not a judging criteria. 
> > 
> > Downgrades: 
> > 1. Model not vertical at start and finish of rolls 
> > and stall turns. 
> > 2. Stall turns not exactly 180 degrees. 
> > 3. Model does not execute prescribed rolls. 
> > 4. Rolls not centered in vertical lines. 
> > 5. Bottom of outside half loop not at same altitude 
> > as entry and exit. 
> > 
> > Regards, 
> > 
> > Glen 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of 
> > Jerry Budd 
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:20 AM 
> > To: NSRCA Mailing List 
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question 
> > 
> > Hi Jim, 
> > 
> > Unless the maneuver has changed from 15 years ago all the rolls have 
> > to be in the same direction, resulting in one stall turn being 
> > canopy-facing you and the other being belly-facing you (your choice 
> > as to which comes first). It's a tough maneuver, especially when the 
> > wind is blowing other than down the runway. 
> > 
> > Jerry 
> > 
> > 
> >> Bob 
> >> My memory crutch is,when flying from left to right, the 1st 2 roll 
> >> directions are left-left and 2nd 2 roll directions are right-right. 
> >> When flying from the right to left,the 1st 2 roll directions are 
> > right-right 
> >> and 2nd 2 roll directions are left-left. 
> >> Like Arch said the center half loop is inverted in both cases. 
> >> Lotsa a upside down. 
> >> 
> >> Jim Ivey 
> >> 
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Archie Stafford" 
> >> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:11 AM 
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Bob, 
> >>> 
> >>> It has to be inverted. The direction of roll must be the same 
> >>> on every 
> >> 3/4 
> >>> roll therefore you end up inverted across the middle. 
> >>> 
> >>> Arch 
> >>> 
> >>> -----Original Message----- 
> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
> >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of 
> >>> Bob Kane 
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:53 AM 
> >>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
> >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question 
> >>> 
> >>> OK, I'm finally try to fly this thing with a 
> >>> pencil . . . . . . one 
> >>> question I have (so far) is the 1/2 loop between the two stall 
> >>> turns in 
> >> the 
> >>> figure M: Does it matter if it is an inside or outside half 
> >>> loop? The 
> >>> aresti diagram posted on Flying Giants shows it as an outside 
> >>> half loop 
> >> with 
> >>> no option. Thanks. 
> >>> 
> >>> Bob Kane 
> >>> getterflash at yahoo.com 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
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> >> 
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> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > ___________ 
> > Jerry Budd 
> > Budd Engineering 
> > (661) 722-5669 Voice/Fax 
> > (661) 435-0358 Cell Phone 
> > mailto:jerry at buddengineering.com 
> > http://www.buddengineering.com 
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