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<DIV>Ron,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think both you and Stu are correct. The line segments must be the same unless a noted otherwise - which is certainly the case for a turnaround maneuver where an altitude adjustment is made (and this exception is noted in the rules).</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte@cox.net> <BR><BR>> <BR>> On Oct 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, Stuart Chale wrote: <BR>> <BR>> > I think that this would fall under the general rules of all radii <BR>> > being <BR>> > equal and all line segments being equal. If line segments were of <BR>> > different <BR>> > lengths then the top of the maneuver and perhaps the bottom would be <BR>> > different in different parts of the maneuver. That would call for a <BR>> > downgrade. <BR>> <BR>> I don't agree that the line segments in different parts of a maneuver <BR>> necessarily must be the same. We can use the Stall Turns W/ Half <BR>> Rolls to make an altitude adjustment, so the two line would be of <BR>> different length and no penalty should be assessed. The Square Loop <BR>> must have line
segments of equal length to preserve the geometry of <BR>> the loop. <BR>> <BR>> Ron Van Putte <BR>> <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of <BR>> > Keith Black <BR>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:13 AM <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question - <BR>> > verticalsegments <BR>> > <BR>> > Now that we're breaking this down, I'd like some clarification on the <BR>> > section of the rule below that states: <BR>> > <BR>> > "The length of the vertical segments is not a judging criteria." <BR>> > <BR>> > In the strictest translation of this sentence I would say that this <BR>> > means <BR>> > that the two stall turns do not need to be the same height, <BR>> > however, th
is <BR>> > seems inconsistent will all other centered maneuvers where two <BR>> > halves of an <BR>> > object do have to match in size. <BR>> > <BR>> > A looser translation could be that the intention of this verbiage <BR>> > is to <BR>> > point out that a shorter 'M' should score as well as a taller 'M', but <BR>> > assumes that both sides should be the same height (which isn't stated <BR>> > anywhere). <BR>> > <BR>> > Unless otherwise clarified, I'd have to deduce that indeed the two <BR>> > stall <BR>> > turns don't have to be the same height. <BR>> > <BR>> > Keith Black <BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: "Glen Watson" <GWATSON11@HOUSTON.RR.COM><BR>> > To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:10 PM <BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Below is the Figure M description from page 79-80 of the current <BR>> > AMA rule <BR>> > book...Note the statement regarding rolls and stall turn direction are <BR>> > pilot's option...I then found this statement "Edit page 79-80 <BR>> > Figure M with <BR>> > ¼ or ½ rolls" to include ¾ roll options" on the NSRCA page under: <BR>> > http://nsrca.org/competition/judging/Patterns2007 <BR>> > <BR>> > Figure M with 1/4 or 1/2 Rolls: Model pulls up into one-quarter <BR>> > (1/4) loop <BR>> > to a vertical track, hesitates then performs prescribed roll, <BR>> > hesitates then <BR>> > executes a stall turn through 180 degrees, hesitates, performs <BR>> > prescribed roll, hesitates then executes one-half (1/2) outside <BR>> > loop to <BR>> > vertical track, hesitates, performs prescribed roll, hesitates, <BR>> > executes a <BR>> > stall turn throu
gh 180 degrees, hesitates, performs prescribed roll, <BR>> > hesitates then recovers with another one-quarter (1/4) loop to <BR>> > level flight. <BR>> > Direction of rolls and stall turns are pilot's option. The length <BR>> > of the <BR>> > vertical segments is not a judging criteria. <BR>> > <BR>> > Downgrades: <BR>> > 1. Model not vertical at start and finish of rolls <BR>> > and stall turns. <BR>> > 2. Stall turns not exactly 180 degrees. <BR>> > 3. Model does not execute prescribed rolls. <BR>> > 4. Rolls not centered in vertical lines. <BR>> > 5. Bottom of outside half loop not at same altitude <BR>> > as entry and exit. <BR>> > <BR>> > Regards, <BR>> > <BR>> > Glen <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
] On Behalf Of <BR>> > Jerry Budd <BR>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:20 AM <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question <BR>> > <BR>> > Hi Jim, <BR>> > <BR>> > Unless the maneuver has changed from 15 years ago all the rolls have <BR>> > to be in the same direction, resulting in one stall turn being <BR>> > canopy-facing you and the other being belly-facing you (your choice <BR>> > as to which comes first). It's a tough maneuver, especially when the <BR>> > wind is blowing other than down the runway. <BR>> > <BR>> > Jerry <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >> Bob <BR>> >> My memory crutch is,when flying from left to right, the 1st 2 roll <BR>> >> directions are left-left and 2nd 2 roll directions are right-right. <BR>> >> When flying from the right to left,the 1st 2 roll directions are <BR>> >
right-right <BR>> >> and 2nd 2 roll directions are left-left. <BR>> >> Like Arch said the center half loop is inverted in both cases. <BR>> >> Lotsa a upside down. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Jim Ivey <BR>> >> <BR>> >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >> From: "Archie Stafford" <RCPATTERN@STX.RR.COM><BR>> >> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:11 AM <BR>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >>> Bob, <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> It has to be inverted. The direction of roll must be the same <BR>> >>> on every <BR>> >> 3/4 <BR>> >>> roll therefore you end up inverted across the middle. <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> Arch <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> -----Original Messa
ge----- <BR>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of <BR>> >>> Bob Kane <BR>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:53 AM <BR>> >>> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> OK, I'm finally try to fly this thing with a <BR>> >>> pencil . . . . . . one <BR>> >>> question I have (so far) is the 1/2 loop between the two stall <BR>> >>> turns in <BR>> >> the <BR>> >>> figure M: Does it matter if it is an inside or outside half <BR>> >>> loop? The <BR>> >>> aresti diagram posted on Flying Giants shows it as an outside <BR>> >>> half loop <BR>> >> with <BR>> >>> no option. Thanks. <BR>> >>> <BR>> &g
t;>> Bob Kane <BR>> >>> getterflash@yahoo.com <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> >> <BR>> >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > -- <BR>> > ___________ <BR
>> > Jerry Budd <BR>> > Budd Engineering <BR>> > (661) 722-5669 Voice/Fax <BR>> > (661) 435-0358 Cell Phone <BR>> > mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com <BR>> > http://www.buddengineering.com <BR>> > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- <BR>> > ------ <BR>> > ---- <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > <BR>> > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion mailin
g list <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion </BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>