[NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question -- nowjudgeing the M

[jivey61 at bellsouth.net]

Glen
 Which way would you fly it...aresti style or AMA as presented by Rick
Wallace in his. Then I will vote.
Jim Ivey
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Watson" <gwatson11 at houston.rr.com>
To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question -- 
nowjudgeing the M


> Understood subjectivity will always be part pattern...
>
> Let's see a show of hands of those who would apply a downgrade to an M
flown
> technically correct according to the AMA judging criteria although the
belly
> was seen during 1 or both of the stall turns.
>
> Glen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Atwood
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:19 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question
>
> I would disagree...it IS defined.  Figure M with 3/4 rolls.  Roll
direction
> is optional, stall direction is optional.  That's always been the case
> unless it's specified otherwise.  There's no "implied" roll direction,
just
> one that some think looks better.  That will always be the case.
>
> Some people do their four points in different directions so as to show the
> canopy first, or last, which ever they feel presents better...Not sure I
> personally care, but for those that do...go for it.   I know I'll catch
> flack for say this, but this IS a subjective sport.  Presentation DOES
> matter... Always will.  It's shouldn't outweigh the objective criteria,
but
> it's not worthless either.
>
>
> On 10/17/06 3:11 PM, "jivey61 at bellsouth.net" <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>
> > G
> > Yes you agree ..but you also see we have to define it now or everybody
> will
> > be flying and judging it differently. What a mess that will be.
> >
> > Jim Ivey
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "george w. kennie" <geobet at gis.net>
> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Jim,
> >> It certainly will work this way, but your original method will present
> >> better. With the roll direction being pilots option your original
> >> ll/rr-rr/ll is a much prettier maneuver. There's something to be said
for
> >> presenting the canopy to the judges on rolling maneuvers. I apply this
> >> technique on all maneuvers with rolling elements unless the specified
> >> requirement forces otherwise, like reverse K.E.'s.  IMHO, you had it
> right
> >> the first time!
> >> G.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
> >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:17 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question
> >>
> >>
> >>> Bob
> >>> If I read the Aresti correct the rolls on both vertical lines are the
> > same
> >>> direction.This makes it lt-lt and lt-lt coming from the left and rt-rt
> > and
> >>> rt-rt coming from the right.Like Jerry  said look at top of plane one
> > time
> >>> and bottom of the plane next time.
> >>>
> >>> Jim Ivey
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Bob Kane" <getterflash at yahoo.com>
> >>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:01 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Wow, this is more complicated than I anticipated. Do you have to roll
> > the
> >>> same way for each stall turn?  Or can you reverse directions to show
the
> >>> canopy during each stall?
> >>>>
> >>>> For example, flying left to right as shown on the aresti, pull 1/4
> > loop,
> >>> short line, roll 3/4 left (canopy toward flightline), short line,
stall
> >>> toward the right, short line, roll 3/4 left, short line, push 1/2
> > outside
> >>> loop, short line, roll 3/4 right (canopy faces flight line), short
line,
> >>> stall towerd the right, short line, 3/4 roll right, short line, pull
1/4
> >>> loop.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob Kane
> >>>> getterflash at yahoo.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>> From: "jivey61 at bellsouth.net" <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
> >>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:45:56 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Jerry
> >>>> I looked again at the aresti and I think you are right.The aresti
shows
> >>>> both upline rolls in the same direction.That would let you see the
top
> >>>> one
> >>>> time and bottom the other time.
> >>>> My mistake Bob so much for crutches.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
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> >>
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