[NSRCA-discussion] Avoidance

Wed Oct 4 15:56:27 AKDT 2006

Good grief!

This is the first time I've ever heard of lower class pilots being told not
to deviate at all  costs.  I sincerely hope that this training is localized
to Fred's area.  In the Pacific Northwest, I assure you that lower class
pilots will bail out of the way if they see the other guy coming, and we
train them accordingly; in fact, the (presumably) less skilled lower class
pilot will tend to allow a *larger* margin of error, not smaller.

And yes, you will take a downgrade or a zero on the manoeuvre.  So what???
If the alternative is potentially losing your plane, bring on the zeroes!
:^)

I fly Masters, and would be Royally Pissed if an Intermediate pilot who saw
me coming elected to keep flying in the hope that I would see him and avoid
him and a mid-air occurred!

Also, the issue of distance out is mis-leading.  The distance out that one
flies is very dependant on the speed at which you're flying; a lot of the
local Masters/FAI guys who are flying electrics are flying much more slowly
than in years past, and are flying closer in as a result.   Probably around
the same distance out that an Intermediate/Advanced pilot is flying ...

Avoidance is probably a bit easier in IMAC, by the way, given the racket
those big gas engines make.  You know where the other planes are without
even looking!

Amar (who's also looking forward to going electric this year)
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Fred Huber [mailto:fhhuber at clearwire.net]
  Sent: October 4, 2006 12:03 PM
  To: shan at telus.net; NSRCA Mailing List
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Avoidance

  Problem here is... one pilot may not see the other and the one who does
see the other may be the lower class pilot, who has had it ground in that he
MUST NOT DEVIATE.

  I've heard discussions about close encounters... and what I hear is...
"the planes look closer to each other than they are"... "the higher class is
always further out"... "ignore the other plane."

  So... what I keep hearing is exactly opposed to any attempt at avoidance
for any reason.  Stick to your maneuver sequence at all costs.

  There is no allowance given in the rules for mid-air avoidance... thus the
way it is now, whoever flinches can throw out his flight because he's going
to get a 0... or maybe a couple of zeros for blowing the maneuver to avoid a
mid-air.  (unless the judges would deviate and say "Avoid him and then refly
the maneuver") You can bet that 99%+ will wait for the other guy to flinch,
especially if they are having a good flight.

  So.. the guy who might be willing to give up his score and avoid... may be
the one who doesn't see the mid-air comming and you have the other guy
fixated on score... expecting the other guy to get out of his way... SMACK.
So... maybe the pilot who saw it comming "desrrves it".. does that make the
other guy who didn't see it comming deserve it?

  Give the pilots indication they won't be penlized for preventing 2 planes
from occupying the same place at the same time... and the guy who sees it
comming will be more willing to prevent the collision.

  As long as you have 2 flight lines on the same field flying in essentially
the same box... you'll have mid-airs come up.  Yes, USUALLY the higher class
pilot flys a bit further out and thus there's little risk.  But some lower
class guys learn the box is bigger if you fly further out...  More time
between maneuvers... less rush... Easier to be smooth...  And the rules even
say you need to be out that far.... (most Sportsman pilots fly a closer line
than the prescribed distance out... from what I have observed)
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Amar Shan
    To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
    Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:24 PM
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Avoidance

    Incredible that some competitors get so caught up in the competition
that they would jeopardize they aircraft for the sake of a few points (on a
turnaround manoeuvre, for heaven's sake!).  Dare I say, "stupid"?

    I saw the most avoidable accident ever at a contest a few years back.
Int/Adv pilots - one doing 3 inside loops, the other doing 2 outside loops,
following the same track, in opposite directions.  They missed each other
... twice ... on the third try they didn't miss.

    We all left shaking our heads.

    I've had midairs.  In all cases, it was because I didn't see the other
aircraft.  If I'd seen it, not all the points in the world would have
prevented me from saving my plane first!

    I don't think a new rule is required here.  As pointed out, it would be
subject to abuse.  If you're stupid enough to destroy your plane rather than
alter your trajectory and take a downgrade, I think a version of the Darwin
Awards should be awarded!

    Amar
      -----Original Message-----
      From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ed Deaver
      Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
      To: NSRCA Mailing List
      Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Avoidance

      Now the ball is rolling on judging, I have another subject worth
discussion.  Not sure it has been actually.
      At N Dallas 2 weeks ago, a midair occurred.  Here is the scenario.
      Both pilots were flying on the same track, but spread apart.  On an
endbox manuever, both pulled vertical and both held their nerve(to their
credit)  It appeared one plane was inside the other.  Suddenly plane #1
pulled to complete his 1/2 square (which appeared inside plane #2) when #2
cut it in 1/2 and flew through it.
      My question is:
      Can pattern effectively begin or have an "avoidance" rule.  These 2
planes were so close had one just pulled the power back a little, let the
other one go on, $6K would still be flying.  I realize some overzelous
competitors would use this indescretionately, but still we could write in
some wording indicating judges had to agree it was in the best interest of
both pilots.  As well no change to distance out could occur (not making it a
positioning advantage)
      Any thoughts on this one.
      Ed

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