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<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Good
grief!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>This
is the first time I've ever heard of lower class pilots being told not to
deviate at all costs. I sincerely hope that this training is
localized to Fred's area. In the Pacific Northwest, I assure you that
lower class pilots will bail out of the way if they see the other guy coming,
and we train them accordingly; in fact, the (presumably) less skilled lower
class pilot will tend to allow a *larger* margin of error, not
smaller.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>And
yes, you will take a downgrade or a zero on the manoeuvre. So
what??? If the alternative is potentially losing your plane, bring on the
zeroes! :^)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I fly
Masters, and would be Royally Pissed if an Intermediate pilot who saw me coming
elected to keep flying in the hope that I would see him and avoid him and a
mid-air occurred!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Also,
the issue of distance out is mis-leading. The distance out that one flies
is very dependant on the speed at which you're flying; a lot of the local
Masters/FAI guys who are flying electrics are flying much more slowly than in
years past, and are flying closer in as a result. Probably around
the same distance out that an Intermediate/Advanced pilot is flying
...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Avoidance is probably a bit easier in IMAC, by the way, given the racket
those big gas engines make. You know where the other planes are without
even looking!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=028004623-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Amar
(who's also looking forward to going electric this year)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Fred Huber
[mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> October 4, 2006 12:03
PM<BR><B>To:</B> shan@telus.net; NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Avoidance<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Problem here is... one pilot may not see the other and the
one who does see the other may be the lower class pilot, who has had it ground
in that he MUST NOT DEVIATE.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I've heard discussions about close encounters... and what I
hear is... "the planes look closer to each other than they are"... "the higher
class is always further out"... "ignore the other plane."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>So... what I keep hearing is exactly opposed to any attempt
at avoidance for any reason. Stick to your maneuver sequence at all
costs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>There is no allowance given in the rules for mid-air
avoidance... thus the way it is now, whoever flinches can throw out his flight
because he's going to get a 0... or maybe a couple of zeros for blowing the
maneuver to avoid a mid-air. (unless the judges would deviate and say
"Avoid him and then refly the maneuver") You can bet that 99%+ will wait for
the other guy to flinch, especially if they are having a good
flight.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>So.. the guy who might be willing to give up his score and
avoid... may be the one who doesn't see the mid-air comming and you have the
other guy fixated on score... expecting the other guy to get out of his way...
SMACK. So... maybe the pilot who saw it comming "desrrves it".. does
that make the other guy who didn't see it comming deserve it?
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Give the pilots indication they won't be penlized for
preventing 2 planes from occupying the same place at the same time... and the
guy who sees it comming will be more willing to prevent the
collision.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>As long as you have 2 flight lines on the same field flying
in essentially the same box... you'll have mid-airs come up. Yes,
USUALLY the higher class pilot flys a bit further out and thus there's little
risk. But some lower class guys learn the box is bigger if you fly
further out... More time between maneuvers... less rush... Easier to be
smooth... And the rules even say you need to be out that far.... (most
Sportsman pilots fly a closer line than the prescribed distance out... from
what I have observed)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=shan@telus.net href="mailto:shan@telus.net">Amar Shan</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:24
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Avoidance</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=229251718-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Incredible that some competitors get so caught up in the competition
that they would jeopardize they aircraft for the sake of a few points (on a
turnaround manoeuvre, for heaven's sake!). Dare I say,
"stupid"?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=229251718-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=229251718-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
saw the most avoidable accident ever at a contest a few years back.
Int/Adv pilots - one doing 3 inside loops, the other doing 2 outside loops,
following the same track, in opposite directions. They missed each
other ... twice ... on the third try they didn't miss.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=229251718-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=229251718-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We
all left shaking our heads.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=229251718-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=229251718-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>I've had midairs. In all cases, it was because I didn't see the
other aircraft. If I'd seen it, not all the points in the world would
have prevented me from saving my plane first!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=229251718-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=229251718-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
don't think a new rule is required here. As pointed out, it would be
subject to abuse. If you're stupid enough to destroy your plane rather
than alter your trajectory and take a downgrade, I think a version of the
Darwin Awards should be awarded!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=229251718-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=229251718-04102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Amar</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ed
Deaver<BR><B>Sent:</B> October 4, 2006 11:05 AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion]
Avoidance<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Now the ball is rolling on judging, I have another subject worth
discussion. Not sure it has been actually.</DIV>
<DIV>At N Dallas 2 weeks ago, a midair occurred. Here is the
scenario.</DIV>
<DIV>Both pilots were flying on the same track, but spread apart. On
an endbox manuever, both pulled vertical and both held their nerve(to
their credit) It appeared one plane was inside the other.
Suddenly plane #1 pulled to complete his 1/2 square (which appeared inside
plane #2) when #2 cut it in 1/2 and flew through it.</DIV>
<DIV>My question is:</DIV>
<DIV>Can pattern effectively begin or have an "avoidance" rule.
These 2 planes were so close had one just pulled the power back a little,
let the other one go on, $6K would still be flying. I realize some
overzelous competitors would use this indescretionately, but still we
could write in some wording indicating judges had to agree it was in the
best interest of both pilots. As well no change to distance out
could occur (not making it a positioning advantage)</DIV>
<DIV>Any thoughts on this one.</DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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