[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Advanced Schedule

[Troy A. Newman]

Yes Jon,
There are no inverted exits. The committee felt that inverted exits were not 
the criteria for an advanced pilot. To really say it another way just 
because the model doesn't exit inverted doesn't mean the sequence is not a 
challenge. I will agree the proposal is a hair less challenging that the 
current version. However the current version has many problems.
Let us look at the challenge aspect.

There is no bigger gap in the KF number on the proposals than now with 
present Advanced to the Masters of today. My point is in looking at KF's 
alone the 48 to KF of 67...The current schedules we have now is a jump from 
50 to 68 so the difference is at worse 1 pt in the KF...

The opinion of the group was that if you can master the skills in the 
proposed 403 then you are ready for the 404 class. Notice I said master the 
skills not can you do the figures. Advanced is not intended to be a Masters 
with less figures in it.

Pattern flying is about mastering and perfecting the skills at various 
level. When asked why people fly pattern the number one answer is they got 
started to learn how to fly better. What would you rather do....go up and 
survive an inverted to inverted 8pt roll and get a 5 or 6 on it every 
time...Or would you rather build the skill to do a upright 4pt roll at the 
score of a 9 every single time and sometimes get a 10. Once you have the 
skill of the 4pt roll then you can do one from inverted to inverted the 
skills are still there.

We developed what we thought would teach skills...The current jump from 402 
to 403 is large and yet the 403-404 jump is fairly small in the skill set 
department. This is a fact of life that we are living with today. Remember 
skills, not orientation of the model.


What is so different in the current to the proposals other than inverted 
exits? Does having an inverted exit make you a better pilot? Does it teach 
you to do a better 4pt roll or slow roll....If you can't do one upright and 
score a 9 on it every time then why should we ask you to do one inverted to 
inverted? The Advanced class is an intro to finesse type rudder, slow rolls 
4pts, little fixes in looping elements like the 6 sided and triangle.

Lets look at the current schedules skills and compare skills.

Stall turn with and without rolls in current. The Proposal has stall turns 
with 1/2s and a center stall turn component easy to see center on that 
one...and must learn to think about roll direction. The current Adv doesn't 
have this element.

Reverse Cuban both

1/2 square loop 2/4pt both

Slow roll both

Bunt 1/2 roll out both

Double I 1/2 on top full roll on btm.  In current but look at its 
components...the triangle with full roll from inverted at the top takes the 
full roll at the btm of the Double I..Then you have Immelman turn to take 
the first part of this figure, and bunts to take the second half of the 
figure...So all the skills are still used. Just you are not exiting anything 
inverted.
Outside Immelman turn.....Bunt skills and Immelamnn skills in proposal

45 down negative snap...so proposal has a 45 down positive snap so does the 
current Masters schedule..and that is a direct preparation figure right? How 
does a 45 down negative snap help you prepare for a Masters with a positive 
any more than or less than a reversed orientation?

Top Hat with 1/4's Both

Triangle loop with 2/4pt...Triangle with full roll, The 2/4pt roll element 
is in the 4pt roll and also in 1/2 sq with 2/4pts

Push Pull humpty no rolls. This is a good rudder figure as there are no 
places to hide the corrections...This skill of shapes can be seen in the 6 
sided as it has no rolls and several radii that must match

Avalanche in Both

4pt roll in Both

1/2 sq with 1/2 roll in vertical in Both

Six sided loop in current FAI P-07 by the way and the proposed Masters 07

2.5 turn spin in current and 3 turn spins in proposal. Very similar skills 
the major missing element is a 1/2 roll on the exit and I think that is 
covered in the Bunt, Immelman, 1/2 sq with 1/2 roll up, Reverse Cuban with 
1/2's,  and so on...

So the reality is I think the proposal cover all the bases the current 
schedule does except one inverted exits....but yet adds in a  center stall 
turn similar to the current masters to make it harder.

So Jon...in a first look the figures seem a little mundane...But the skills 
are there and its things a pilot can build on and master not just survive 
the figure. I ask this question. What good does it do a Advanced pilot to go 
up and do a figure that he scores a 6 on every single time he flies it, 
because he has not mastered the rudder skills needed to roll from inverted 
to inverted. The current Double I with the full roll at the bottom because 
its down low and the speed changes and pucker increases and other things 
means he is not going to go out and work really hard on the roll with 
rudder. Instead we see the guys blasting through it because they are afraid 
to touch the rudder incase they give it wrong rudder.

What does an advanced guy do a bunch...?  Give it the wrong rudder! We have 
all been through or are going through it. Rudder rolls like the bottom of 
the Double I  are a very finesse rudder input. This is a skill that is 
needed in Advanced and the group felt that Finesse rudder was one of the 
main criteria in Advanced. Plus you are going to see this skill in the bunt 
with 1/2 roll out...But instead its a 1/2 roll not a full roll. So the 
advanced pilot can master the 1/2 roll then go on to use that later in the 
sequence in the triangle while the model is up high and it can be seen.

So how do you teach your kid to ride a bike? Do you take them in the grass 
so that when they fall its softer than the pavement? Do you add training 
wheels to the bike so that when they fall to the side the wheels catch them? 
Do you run behind and hold the seat, hoping that when you let go its not a 
trip to the ER.

Well Finesse Rudder inputs are the same type of thing. We setup the proposal 
to help an advanced pilot succeed. He is not being given anything. The 
skills are still there and demanding, just not in the same place you would 
expect them.

The current Advanced has 3 figures in a roll that are Immelman based. They 
are teaching the same skills. All at the same time. The proposal tries to 
link these skills and come back to them without doing the repeat thing 
figure after figure.


This has been long enough...but I think you see where we tried to go with 
the proposal.

Troy