[NSRCA-discussion] Carbon fiber shortage

Wed Jul 19 14:01:08 AKDT 2006

I don't agree...more pollution is not an answer. I saw the same program on the Science Channel and felt that the investigators' findings made sense. As I recall, smaller ice crystals than is natural form on the polluted air up there and can't fall down as precipitation. Collectively, they form a pretty good mirror though. The investigators may have inferred that higher pollution might serve as sun shield short term but stopped short of stating it as such.

Wish I knew when we will finally get it regarding how we have been mortgaging the future with present actions. Future payment may be too high for anyone to repay.

One undeniable truth is that Nature will win no matter what we do (sigh)
MattK 

-----Original Message-----
From: joddino at socal.rr.com
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Sent: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Carbon fiber shortage

There was a program on Nova or one of those science things that talked about it.  Some Brit did a study for Israel back in the early 50s to measure the heat load so they could design their irrigation system.  For some reason he went back and did it again within the last few years.  He found that there was something like 20% less heat from the sun but no one was interested because everyone knows we have global warming.  Then some guys in Australia who measure the rate of evaporization got together with him and their data correlated very well.  They then showed pictures from space of the contrails up and down the Western states and explained how the water droplets formed on the jet soot and reflected the sunlight.  A very interesting program.  Sounds like we need more high altitude pollution to counter global warming.

Jim O
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bob Richards 
To: NSRCA Mailing List 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Carbon fiber shortage

Actually, I do remember reading about the effects of high-altitude jet exhaust in an article about 4 years ago. Seems that after 9-11, someone did a study. It was due to an extremely rare moment in history, when no airplanes were allowed to fly, at least in the Con US. According the the report I read, the effect was measureable.

Bob R.

Richard Strickland <richard.s at allied-callaway.com> wrote:
A thought on a hot day—supposed to be 104 F today in KC.  Has anyone done a study on how much fuel gets injected into the upper atmosphere by jets?   I know there are PIPELINE(S!) of the stuff going from the Gulf coast to the East coast and elsewhere.  You certainly hear about pollution from any kind of ground vehicle—but absolutely nuthin’ about airline, GA, and military transport.  It would seem that a little spread out in the upper atmosphere would have a great deal more effect than a lot spread closer to the ground.  I AM feeling a little guilty driving a hog, however.  I’m thinking ‘sacred cow’ information suppression—we might have to truly get our act together on high-speed mass transit.

Off soapbox--wish I was at the NATS,

Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Gray E Fowler
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:12 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Carbon fiber shortage

Tom 

Just because those "Road Warrior" movies were film in Australia does not mean they are true!  Besides, I love $3/gallon gasoline. 

1. People use less 
2. Alternatives become cost effective 
3. Ethanol will replace Gasoline and we can save oil to make CF! 

Gray 

Hey Gray, 

I Think the A380 cant get to Oz fast enough. I think on these long haul flight routes it will be a good thing-HOWEVER-personally I'm not too keen to get on anything made by Airbus. I shudder every time I have to get on one.They seem to have a habit of falling out of the sky. Isn't there some kind of joke amongst Airbus pilots? Something along the lines of-'why did it do that?' 

I believe Australia is also involved with the JSF.  Down here, there has been some political debate over it lately, along the lines of, overpriced, behind schedule and yesterdays technology.....all good stuff really, cause when we run out of oil shortly, no one will be able to afford air travel or fill their car with gasoline. I doubt the JSF will be much good to anyone either sitting on the tarmac ( unless its powered by anti-matter and Dilithium crystals <VBG>) 

I think our dependence on the middle east because of its oil will affect us all more than we think. Isn't carbon fibre manufacture dependant on oil as well? How do they heat those furnaces? 

Luckily most of my modelling endeavours will remain  in mostly balsa, and maybe the remaining rolls of carbon in my workshop may become  worthwhile 'stock' <G>  AND even better, maybe my unbuilt PL kits will appreciate in 'value' after all........hehehehehehehe...I wished ..sigh. 

Tom 

Gray Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radome and Composites Engineering
Raytheon
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