<HTML><BODY>
<div>I don't agree...more pollution is not an answer. I saw the same program on the Science Channel and felt that the investigators' findings made sense. As I recall, smaller ice crystals than is natural form on the polluted air up there and can't fall down as precipitation. Collectively, they form a pretty good mirror though. The investigators may have inferred that higher pollution might serve as sun shield short term but stopped short of stating it as such.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Wish I knew when we will finally get it regarding how we have been mortgaging the future with present actions. Future payment may be too high for anyone to repay.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>One undeniable truth is that Nature will win no matter what we do (sigh)</div>
<div>MattK </div>
<div> </div>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: joddino@socal.rr.com<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Sent: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 2:54 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Carbon fiber shortage<br>
<br>
<STYLE>
.AOLPlainTextBody {
margin: 0px;
font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif;
font-size: 12px;
color: #000;
background-color: #fff;
}
.AOLPlainTextBody pre {
font-size: 9pt;
}
.AOLInlineAttachment {
margin: 10px;
}
.AOLAttachmentHeader {
font: 11px arial;
border: 1px solid #7DA8D4;
background: #F9F9F9;
}
.AOLAttachmentHeader .Title {
font: 11px arial;
background: #B5DDFA;
padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px;
}
.AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel {
font: 11px arial;
color: #000000;
padding: 1px 10px 1px 9px;
background: #F9F9F9;
}
.AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue {
font: 11px arial;
color: #000000;
background: #F9F9F9;
}
.AOLAttachmentHeader a, .AOLImage a {
color: #2864B4;
text-decoration: none;
}
.AOLAttachmentHeader a:hover, .AOLImage a:hover {
color: #2864B4;
text-decoration: underline;
}
body {
background-color: white;
font-family: "Verdana";
font-size: 10pt;
border: 0px;
}
.spell {
padding-bottom:2px;
background:yellow url(images/bg_spellingErr.gif) bottom left repeat-x;
color:#000;
}
.spellHover {
text-decoration:none;
color:#b00;
padding-bottom:2px;
background:yellow url(images/bg_spellingErr.gif) bottom left repeat-x;
}
p {
margin: 0px;
padding: 0px;
}
img.managedImg {
width: 0px;
height: 0px;
}
img.placeholder {
width: 275px;
height: 206px;
background: #F4F4F4 url(images/activityIndicator.gif) center center no-repeat;
border: 1px solid #DADAD6 !important;
}
</STYLE>
<div id=AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b>
<div><FONT face=Arial size=2>There was a program on Nova or one of those science things that talked about it. Some Brit did a study for Israel back in the early 50s to measure the heat load so they could design their irrigation system. For some reason he went back and did it again within the last few years. He found that there was something like 20% less heat from the sun but no one was interested because everyone knows we have global warming. Then some guys in Australia who measure the rate of evaporization got together with him and their data correlated very well. They then showed pictures from space of the contrails up and down the Western states and explained how the water droplets formed on the jet soot and reflected the sunlight. A very interesting program. Sounds like we need more high altitude pollution to counter global warming.</FONT></div>
<div><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </div>
<div><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim O</FONT></div>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=bob@toprudder.com href="javascript:parent.ComposeTo('bob@toprudder.com');">Bob Richards</A> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="javascript:parent.ComposeTo('nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org');">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:15 AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Carbon fiber shortage</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Actually, I do remember reading about the effects of high-altitude jet exhaust in an article about 4 years ago. Seems that after 9-11, someone did a study. It was due to an extremely rare moment in history, when no airplanes were allowed to fly, at least in the Con US. According the the report I read, the effect was measureable.<br>
</div>
<div>Bob R.</div>
<div><br>
<B><I>Richard Strickland <richard.s@allied-callaway.com></I></B> wrote:</div>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><LINK rel=File-List>
<STYLE>@#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b font-face {
font-family: Tahoma;
}
@#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b font-face {
font-family: sans-serif;
}
@#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b font-face {
font-family: Comic Sans MS;
}
@#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; }
#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b P.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"
}
#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b LI.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"
}
#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b DIV.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"
}
#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b P.MsoAutoSig {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"
}
#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b LI.MsoAutoSig {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"
}
#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b DIV.MsoAutoSig {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"
}
#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b SPAN.EmailStyle15 {
COLOR: navy; mso-style-type: personal-reply; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial
}
#AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b DIV.Section1 {
page: Section1
}
</STYLE>
<div class=Section1>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">A thought on a hot day—supposed to be 104 F today in KC.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Has anyone done a study on how much fuel gets injected into the upper atmosphere by jets? <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I know there are PIPELINE(S!) of the stuff going from the Gulf coast to the East coast and elsewhere.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You certainly hear about pollution from any kind of ground vehicle—but absolutely nuthin’ about airline, GA, and military transport.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It would seem that a little spread out in the upper atmosphere would have a great deal more effect than a lot spread closer to the ground.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I AM feeling a little guilty driving a hog, however.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’m thinking ‘sacred cow’ information suppression—we might have to truly get our act together on high-speed mass transit.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "=" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Off soapbox--wish I was at the NATS,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Richard<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Gray E Fowler<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:12 AM<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Carbon fiber shortage</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Tom</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
<br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Just because those "Road Warrior" movies were film in Australia does not mean they are true! Besides, I love $3/gallon gasoline.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
<br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">1. People use less</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">2. Alternatives become cost effective</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">3. Ethanol will replace Gasoline and we can save oil to make CF!</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
<br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Gray</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
<br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Hey Gray,</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
<br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">I Think the A380 cant get to Oz fast enough. I think on these long haul flight routes it will be a good thing-HOWEVER-personally I'm not too keen to get on anything made by Airbus. I shudder every time I have to get on one.They seem to have a habit of falling out of the sky. Isn't there some kind of joke amongst Airbus pilots? Something along the lines of-'why did it do that?'</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
<br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">I believe Australia is also involved with the JSF. Down here, there has been some political debate over it lately, along the lines of, overpriced, behind schedule and yesterdays technology.....all good stuff really, cause when we run out of oil shortly, no one will be able to afford air travel or fill their car with gasoline. I doubt the JSF will be much good to anyone either sitting on the tarmac ( unless its powered by anti-matter and Dilithium crystals <VBG>)</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
<br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">I think our dependence on the middle east because of its oil will affect us all more than we think. Isn't carbon fibre manufacture dependant on oil as well? How do they heat those furnaces?</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
<br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Luckily most of my modelling endeavours will remain in mostly balsa, and maybe the remaining rolls of carbon in my workshop may become worthwhile 'stock' <G> AND even better, maybe my unbuilt PL kits will appreciate in 'value' after all........hehehehehehehe...I wished ..sigh.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
<br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Tom</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <br>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
Gray Fowler<br>
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<br>
Radome and Composites Engineering<br>
Raytheon</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE><br>
<div>
<HR>
<div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
<div>
<HR>
<div></div>
No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br>
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release Date: 7/18/2006<br>
</BLOCKQUOTE></div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_3_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b -->
<div class=AOLPlainTextBody id=AOLMsgPart_4_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b><PRE><TT>_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
<A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion%40lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
<A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A>
</TT></PRE></div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_4_f5ab2948-87b2-43a3-a1bb-e23d1c0b9e9b -->
<div class="AOLPromoFooter">
<hr style="margin-top:10px;" />
<a href="http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank"><b>Check out AOL.com today</b></a>. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.<br />
</div>
</BODY></HTML>