[NSRCA-discussion] Electric Power Consumption

Thu Jan 12 18:47:57 AKST 2006

Thanks George great info. I'm set but maybe other can use.
 That should really have the power.
 Steve 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: George Miller 
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Sent: 1/12/2006 10:44:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric Power Consumption

H-L recommends the AXI 5320/28 with a 18X10 APC electric prop and the Jeti 90 amp controller for use with a 10S Lipo pack (two 5s in series in my case)  Here is Justin's reply to me:

"This one will rock any 8-9 pound 90 sized 3d/pattern plane's world...and it uses your 5s4p packs in series for 10s:
Here's everything you'll need to complete your Glow to Electric Conversion of the Fliton Infinity 90  (or the Showtime)

You'll be happy to hear that we actually already have a perfectly suited electric setup and charger ready as a combo.  Order # FLTINF90, for $1299.00.  You can see it on the web at http://www.hobby-lobby.com/g2e-flitinfinity90.htm
"
Here is the link to just the motor and some specs:

 http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless-axi5320.htm

I'll let you know how it flies in a week or so.

George

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Steven Maxwell 
To: NSRCA Mailing List 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric Power Consumption

 Very good of HL I'm happy for you. Could you give us more info on what motor and speed control so others could benefit from your experience, and please keep us updated on your progress.
 Steve Maxwell

----- Original Message ----- 
From: George Miller 
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Sent: 1/12/2006 9:01:34 PM 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric Power Consumption

Just to update the thread, I heard today from Hobby Lobby and they recommend a different motor/esc combo that will run with my 5s4p packs in series...so I'll go with that.  They also said they would give me a 50% credit for the ESC which I think is pretty nice considering that I take full responsibility for burning it up<G>.  

Is there any way to tell that I fried the motor or not?  H_L says that I can send it back to Actro for repair, but I hate to send it back to the continent if it isn't broken.

George
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dean Pappas 
To: NSRCA Mailing List 
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric Power Consumption

Hi George and Gang,
Lacking a copy of one of the fancy e-simulator tools, you can go to www.aveox.com, and find their free simulator. It ain't fancy, but if you adjust the number of NiCad cells used by default to get 34 or 35V, then it produces meaningful results. Plug in the numbers for Kv, winding resistance, and no-load current of your motor (should all be available on the mfgr's website and to any who don't shame on you!) and you will get a good +/- 10% estimate of the current you should expect with a given prop. The tool works, and can save you money and grief. Most importantly, use a current meter the very first time you try any new prop size! Sears sells a nifty clamp-on DC current meter for $50. RVP, what was the part number on that critter, again?
later,

Dean Pappas 
Sr. Design Engineer 
Kodeos Communications 
111 Corporate Blvd. 
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080 
(908) 222-7817 phone 
(908) 222-2392 fax 
d.pappas at kodeos.com 
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of George Miller
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:25 AM
To: patternrules at earthlink.net; NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric Power Consumption

Thanks, Steve- I picked the Actro 32-3 because I'm going to use one in my Ion and I therefore knew that it would run on the 5s4p packs.  I picked the prop at the upper end of the Hobby Lobby range...didn't do the RPM/volt calculation...but if that is true, even with only only one pack(5S), I'd be pushing 10K rev's ..... My Plettenberg turns about 9K with 42 Volts.  As to the cell count--- at 1.5 volt per cell, 26 nicad cells is about 39 volts...and since I knew the actro was run in heli's with the 10S setup, I thought that was pretty close.....

I'm not trying to be contentious, I'm just trying to learn how to do these calculations properly in the future.  Its all well and good to say use a proven system, but someone has to "prove" each one as they come available.   I guess I need much more info before I become a pioneer<G>.

G
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Steven Maxwell 
To: NSRCA Mailing List 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric Power Consumption

 I'm trying to learn some of this also, so take anything I might say with a grain of salt, I will be using a standard setup this spring that many have already used.
 From Hobby-Lobby site for Actro 32-3
For 14-26 cells in propeller models and 28-32 cells in helicopters. Propeller range is 13" to 18" in diameter. This 3 turn motor has an RPM/Volt of 555, resistance of 34 mOhm. Maximum efficiency of about 89% in the 50-95 amp draw range. Power output in the 550-2000 watt range.
 Sounds like you used 5S4P in series 42 volts X  RPM/Volt of 555=23,310 rpm.
  I tried to run a setup on motor calc but there data is so outa date nothing there to use maybe somehas elecalc to do figures for you.
 The other thing I have found on Hobby Lobby site is most of the time they talk about cells is to NiMh or NiCd if Lipo's they generally say so.
   Hope this will generate some info and the best of luck.
 Steve Maxwell

----- Original Message ----- 
From: George Miller 
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: 1/11/2006 1:32:01 AM 
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric Power Consumption

I have a problem with an electric conversion which while not precisely pattern related, I'm sure will be applicable to electric pattern problems...so I'll ask it here.

I am trying to convert a Showtime from YS 110 4 cycle power to electric power.  After looking around the web, I got an Actro 32-3 - which is a popular motor for the Ion electric helicopter.  I know that this motor runs well with available ESC's on 5S4P lithium packs, so I set it up with a 17X12 APC e prop and a 77amp ESC from Hobby Lobby  ( esc and prop recommended on their website).    To make a long story short, the ESC litterally burned up 30 seconds into the first flight....but BOY WHAT POWER for that 30 seconds<G>!!!

OK, so I'm thinking that burning up probably indicates a problem.....and I start to investigate...I hook up a watts-up to my Focus II with a Plettenberg 30-10 and a 21X12 APC and it pulls about 65 amps at full throttle on the bench....Then I set up the Showtime and it tops 75 amps at half throttle!! HMMM, so there is the problem....Now I try to make changes to decrease the amperage -- larger prop and smaller prop---no major change, then I tried just using a 5 cell pack cutting voltage in half...still about the same....so the question is:  How do you adjust the current drawn by an electric motor?  Can this set up be salvaged...Where did I go wrong and how can I avoid this in the future? 

TIA for your help and the benefit of your experience!

George

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