[NSRCA-discussion] ** Klipped to repost ** Equipment cost and partiicpation --

[mike mueller]

 Good points Del. You also have to remember that there was a time when pattern,pylon and scale were about the only 3 events available in RC. Today there are so many more choices to divide the ranks. Mike

"Del K. Rykert" <drykert2 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:  I agree with many of the post I have been reading and very much so with 
George's and Terry's post. When I look back at the earlier days of pattern 
(70's) when all maneuvers were done center stage a person with fair flying 
talent could compete and have fun and good time. Some even came out and 
compete for the local pattern event only practicing a little during the week 
prior to the pattern contest. The competition bar has been raised way beyond 
that stage now and why we had a few leave when we went to turnaround. We 
have been in steady decline for the most part since the beginning of 
turnaround. Not looking only at NSRCA numbers but attendance of local meets 
from those days. Due to the cost and poor attendance at some contests clubs 
have to do a serious look at justification of holding events if low turnout 
is result. Cost to compete have risen and some have to pick and choose which 
event we will attend. Not always monetary choice but time choice. I know 
there was a time when I would travel 4 hours to a local contest to have fun 
and be somewhat competitive but now with the value of the airplane and cost 
of getting to the events rising for me I have to look at justification if I 
haven't practiced and don't know how the equipment is performing I now 
choose to stay home work on equipment issues. The sport has become more 
complex. One now needs a professional caller at their beck and call.. Not 
just some warm body from the flight line. This is for local events folks.. 
Not the Worlds or Nat's. All of these changes do have a price that goes with 
them. It has improved the caliber and quality of flying and only those very 
strongly interested now participate. Many have used great and unique ideas 
to help recruit new blood. Each idea will not work for all people or areas. 
Unfortunately the old days of just letting new blood approach us are mostly 
gone. These issues sure have not helped encourage attendance and pattern 
participation IMHO.

Del
nsrca - 473

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Kennie" 
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Equipment cost and partiicpation -- a 
different viewpoint (LONG)


Wow David!!!!!,
In addition to Dave L's observations I would have to add that you're way too
intelligent for my level of participation on this forum.
I had to look up "orthogonal", but in general, I really related to the 
logical
approach to your analytical assessment.
I would also submit that "saving pattern" may not be exactly the problem 
confronting
the sport as a whole.
My feeling is that the individual who becomes engrossed in this endeavor 
must first
become overcome with a specific "VISION"! Without "vision", an individual is
unempowered to embark upon any enterprise, whether it be the Steinway, the
Calloway's, or the Pinnacle. I have felt, for some time, that the reason the 
sport
flyer exhibits such disdain for the practice of pattern is the lack of 
"vision"
conceptually.The "vision " to embrace the concept sometimes goes further 
than just
head knowledge and appears to involve, at least to some degree, specific 
personality
traits or characteristics which may prevent the gestation of the "vision" in 
the
first place.
I have also observed that the average sport flyer misses the idea of 
sequential
maneuvering, only thinking in terms of singular maneuvers at a time. To 
illustrate
this, I have a friend whose favorite phrase is "I can do that!", in 
responce to a
suggested maneuver and insists that all he needs is a caller ( he won't 
memorize the
sequence), and yet when I stand behind him and call out the sequence he 
constantly
gets behind in his preparation for the upcoming maneuver because he is 
thinking
uni-manueverably instead of sequentially. The "vision" isn't there yet. Is 
he the
next generation? Possibly, but not until he receives the vision IMHO. To 
this
particular individual, cost is not an obstacle and I know tons of guys who 
have the
means, but the "vision" is missing.
Now, if you try to explain the "vision" to one of these individuals you may 
end up
with a few missing teeth or worse as it insults their intellect. So, for me, 
there
seems to be an intangible hurdle to overcome that creates great frustration 
within my
psyche.
The interesting thing about the "vision" is that it can be quite different 
in it's
intensity for different individuals. Additionally, the "vision" can wax and 
wane. I'm
sure you know guys that are currently flying pattern that are just happy to 
be
participating and are doing so at a lower intensity level of "vision" while 
others
are on fire and are constantly thinking of ways to improve their execution
techniques.In some cases the "vision" may be driven by selfish motives while 
in
others the impulse may be driven by pure servitude.
In any case, the "VISION" needs to be there and having it will always 
overpower
monetary issues.
Nothing else matters except the "VISION"

Just conversation, guys.
G.

David Flynt wrote:

> There has been a lot of discussion about the cost of pattern equipment and
> how it might be the cause of low participation and low rate of recruiting
> new pilots. There are several flavors of the claim that I have heard:
>
> 1. If pattern were not expensive, more rc pilots would participate.
> 2. Pattern is not necessarily expensive, but there is an impression 
> that you
> must have an expensive plane to win. If we could just get the message
> across that you do not need an expensive airplane, then more rc pilots 
> would
> participate.
> 3. It is bad to spend a lot of money on pattern equipment, because 
> that will
> cause others to purchase more expensive equipment.
> 4. You cannot win with a low cost airplane (aka roach - nothing 
> personal).
> You need a fancy, expensive airplane to win.
> 5. You should build your own airplane, preferably using wood, because 
> that
> will lower your cost.
> 6. Lowering cost is the key to saving pattern.
>
> I disagree with all of these viewpoints, and I will argue why I feel this
> way. But first, let me say a couple of things. 1) I like a bargain and
> value as much as anybody. Nobody throws money away. Have you ever
> purchased something and paid more than the retail price because you felt
> that you were cheating the business? Nobody does that. We all hunt for
> bargains. So low cost is a great thing. 2) Please don't take anything I
> say personal or as criticism, even if I use inflammatory terms such as
> roach. I don't mean to upset anybody. It is just a discussion.
>
> Let's start with number 1: If pattern were not expensive, more rc pilots
> would participate.
>
> This one is easy. Golf is arguably at least as expensive as pattern. It
> can be done on the cheap, but for the most part there are people in every
> corner of the United States that play golf and spend many thousands on it
> each year. They buy expensive equipment, pay for lessons, join country
> clubs, and spend lots of money - much more than pattern pilots on average.
> There are many more golfers than even RC pilots. There is wealth in this
> country, but even the not so wealthy play golf and spend big bucks. If 
> cost
> were a barrier, then there would be fewer golfers than pattern pilots. 
> But
> there are more golfers than pattern pilots; therefore cost is not a 
> barrier.
>
> Number 2: Pattern is not necessarily expensive, but there is an impression
> that you must have an expensive plane to win. If we could just get the
> message across that you do not need an expensive airplane, then more rc
> pilots would participate.
>
> It is true that pattern equipment is not necessarily expensive. Probably
> $1000, depending on the servos is the minimum competitive setup in upper
> classes, and this could be very competitive.
>
> Let me try this argument. Consider the piano. How many people play?
> Probably not very many. A piano can be expensive or inexpensive. You can
> buy a used piano or an electric keyboard for a few hundred dollars. Now 
> if
> I offer to give you a Steinway Model D piano, would you give up pattern 
> and
> start playing piano? You're probably not going to give up pattern just
> because I subsidize a piano for you. If you were truly interested in 
> piano,
> you would figure out a way to start playing. Subsidizing is completely
> unnecessary. The same is true for pattern.
>
> Now, do you need a Steinway to play well? I can tell you it is a better
> instrument than most. So what. You don't need a Steinway to play the 
> piano
> well. You need to practice to play well. But let's say you like the way 
> a
> Steinway feels and sounds, and it makes you happy to have one, and you 
> don't
> mind spending the extra money on one. Is there something wrong with that?
> In other words, if you buy a Steinway, do you really think somebody else 
> who
> is sincerely interested in piano would somehow become frustrated and never
> play because you can afford a Steinway but they cannot? That's 
> ridiculous.
> Anybody who is sincerely interested will play the piano whether or not 
> they
> can afford a Steinway. The same is true with pattern.
>
> Number 3: It is bad to spend a lot of money on pattern equipment, because
> that will cause others to purchase more expensive equipment.

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