[NSRCA-discussion] Was Mini Brio, Now Pattern Longitevity

Sat Feb 25 21:25:43 AKST 2006

Truthfully.. competition will never be for the masses.. 

One thing that would certainly help pattern is for people to believe they
can be competitive without having to spend $5000 on an airplane. They most
certainly can do it.. but the PERCEPTION needs to be there for it to take
hold.

-Doug

  _____  

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
vicenterc at comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 8:28 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List; NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Was Mini Brio, Now Pattern Longitevity

It is rewarding to read positive messages.  This is one of them.  Today, I
got the K-Factor and Rusty Dose message was also positive.  

Regards,

Vicente Bortone

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Mike Hester" <kerlock at comcast.net> 

> Real quickly, I don't think pattern is dying, I think it is evolving, 
> changing, shifting areas of activeness. While it's numbers are dwindling
in 
> some places, the numbers are on the increase in others. 
> 
> one thing I think would be a mistake would be to change the airframe rules

> in pattern. they are stabilized, and I don't think changing them would
have 
> any positive long lasting effect. if anything, it could worsen the 
> situation. Stability fosters enginuety, and some people are rising to the 
> challenge of both leading edge technology, and old school methods. When
you 
> learn how to seamlessly blend both, you create more options. 
> 
> Think about how wide open our airframe and power rules real! ly are: power
is 
> virtually unlimited, airframe is an empty 2 meter box with a maximum
weight 
> of 5 k or 11 lbs, and the noise requirement...but if they can get a 40% 
> within the noise requirements, then that's no longer an issue. 
> 
> What we have to do, all of us, is foster a fun but competetive atmosphere.

> We need to reach out to people on a grass roots level and get them 
> motivated. We need to slay the perception that you must have a $3000 
> airframe and $2-3000 worth of electric power or you're wasting your time.
I 
> hate that crap. And we need to ALL make sure that we don't even 
> subconsciously give the edge to a guy with the latest greatest electric
set 
> up, because by doing so think what message we'll be sending to the guy
that 
> really can't afford that kind of investment right now, today. in the
future 
> who knows. 
> 
> if you haven't heard, ZDZ is coming! out with a new 40cc f3A engine this 
> summer. this thing will turn as large of a prop as the electrics. The
weight 
> increase over glow isn't even half as bad as electric. This alone could do

> great things for us in crossing certain invisible barriers. 
> 
> Then again, maybe not =) 
> 
> Sorry to ramble, must be the paint fumes..... 
> 
> -Mike 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ryan Smith" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:51 PM 
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Was Mini Brio, Now Pattern Longitevity 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't think that you have to spend out the butt to have a 
> competitive setup. The keeping up with the Joneses syndrome is the
prevalent 
> factor that makes everyone think that pattern is so ungodly expensive.
There 
> are plenty of options out there for people to create a cost-effective, 
> competitive two meter! rig. But alas, people out there think they HAVE to 
> have the biggest best and fastest everything, when in reality, there is no

> way in hell most newer fliers out there can discern between a slightly 
> inferior and cheaper product and a top of the line product (a big example 
> here would be digital servos as opposed to analog servos). There are 
> certainly MANY viable options out there for a cheap two meter setup that 
> will be competitive in the long run. The best example I can see of this is

> Mark Hunt, down in the Houston area. His airplane, the Insight, is all
wood 
> and foam, and can be built with maybe $150 worth of wood (I'm throwing a 
> generous estimate out there), not to mention the plans are like $25. He is

> actually running an OS 1.60 on a standard muffler and is still making the 
> noise restrictions. Mark exemplifies what people just starting out in 
> pattern need to look in! to, not only because it's cheap, but the
airplanes 
> are simple to maintain and I would venture to say bulletproof. I bought a 
> set from him a while back and haven't had the chance to build one, but I 
> really would like to. I would like to do what he's doing and and outfit it

> with analog servos and make it otherwise plain jane and see just how it 
> stacks up to the rest of the field out there. There are also several other

> wood airplanes out there that are a little more extravagant, such as the 
> Black Magic v2 by Mike Hester and the Quest and Shindin by Bryan Herbert 
> that are being drawn in CAD and being kitted. Look at the airplanes that
the 
> Japanese team members fly- they're all wood. And look at where they place.

> Most if not all are always in the top ten, and young Tetsuo Onda even
placed 
> second this year. That's a heck of a feat for anyone, mu 
> ch less an eighteen year old who is flying against people who have been 
> modeling twice as ! long as he's been living. 
> 
> Another point, the theory of everyone flying the same thing has 
> never worked, not in fullscale and not in models. The One Design class
never 
> caught on in full scale, however there are many examples of that airplane 
> flying. In IMAC, there are worries about everyone using consistent 
> batteries, motors, servos, and such, and if you have to be dictated that 
> much on what you can and cannot fly, it takes the fun out. Also, in IMAC,
it 
> is commonplace to see high end airplanes in Basic and Sportsman just
because 
> people want to get that advantage that they really get through burning
fuel. 
> I know everyone hates to hear that, but it is the truth. Once you start to

> see improvements in your own flying after having flown a lot, then you see

> what everyone preaches about when they say fly a bunch. I really don't
think 
> that pattern dying is really dir! ectly related to cost, but if you want
to 
> make it such let's break down Jay's idea. How cost effective is it to make

> someone buy something that they can't use in upper classes and would have
to 
> buy a new setup every year. Shouldn't we be showing people that they can
go 
> and get a nice setup that they can actually use and enjoy? Not to mention 
> the fact that you can reuse the equipment should you decide (or your
thumbs 
> decide) to get a new airframe. I think the cost factor is implemented by 
> people who don't really have the desire to succeed and have to use that as
a 
> scapegoat to cover what they see as their failures. 
> 
> I honestly think pattern needs an overhaul. It's not the cost 
> that really drives people away, it's the ideology surrounding it that
does. 
> People see pattern as being boring and too easy, and generally not
exciting. 
> However, with the advent 3D flight, and people becoming attracted to model

> airplanes because of ! it, they really want to hone their skills. I have
seen 
> a lot of subtle hints dropped by some past pattern flyers who write for 
> magazines telling people to look into pattern if they really want to
become 
> better at 3D. I also think that we need more promotion. Model Aviation has

> cut down the pattern column in the magazine to every other month, yet
there 
> are other facets in there that get full coverage that really don't need
it. 
> If we want pattern to survive, we really need to get publicized where it 
> counts- where we're going to be attracting people. Advertising in the K 
> Factor does nothing for the growth of pattern because we're all already 
> interested enough in it to subscribe. But there are people out there who 
> don't know and maybe would like to. I can't tell you how many times on RCU

> I've seen someone post in the Pattern Forum "What is Pattern Flying?".
Most 
> are usual! ly creative in what they think it is, but nevertheless, the
same 
& gt; group sets them straight. I think we should get on the AMA to get us
more 
> coverage and other magazines as well, such as Model Airplane News, 3D
Flyer, 
> etc. I believe THAT is what will help us, not making people buy some
little 
> electric that they won't be competitive with. 
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to read this guys, please feel free 
> to respond. 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> 
> 
> Ryan Smith 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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