[NSRCA-discussion] USA team trials

Sun Apr 2 14:48:09 AKDT 2006

Earl,
       I didn't say it was inappropriate. 

In my exposure to team trials at the Nat's I have not see the formula used where there was, 
4 matrixed P-07's, 
2 semi-final rounds for 20 pilots of F-07, 
and then a 4 round final (2 F's and 2 unknowns). 

I have seen a 6-round matrix-qualifier and then a 4-round final (2 F's and 2 unknowns). 

So I thought that something might have to change???

Is there a standard for team trails, or is it flexible?

Regards,

Eric.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Earl Haury 
  To: NSRCA Mailing List 
  Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 9:03 AM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] USA team trials

  Eric

  I'm going to need some help to understand your views. You state:

  " In the last printed format for the 2006 Nationals FAI class was 
  being run as follows. P-07 on Monday and Tuesday,Semi's on Wednesday flying 
  F-07, and then Final's on Thursday with two F-07's and two different 
  unknowns. To run a team trials this would have to be changed."

  Given that this format was adopted by the NSRCA to make F3A at our Nats compliant with FAI rules  - how is it inappropriate for selecting the Team? What changes are deemed necessary?

  Please understand also that the AMA "Procedures Governing the Academy's Sponsorship of FAI Teams" specifies (pg.9 sec IV item 5) "The only applicable rules for team selection contests are the AMA By-Laws and standing rules, the approved program details (emphasis mine), the current FAI Sporting Code, and this document." The key in this discussion is "the approved program details". (The program is prepared by the TSC and approved by Program participants.) This has been done and the "detail" is that they will be conducted within the framework of the Nats (as previously defined by the NSRCA process) as published.

  FWIW - I've as the AMA Competitions Dept. to publish the above referenced document (Amended Nov. 2005) on their website, and they plan to do so - but they sure are slow about it.

  Your other points are easier to understand. 

  The "extra judges" who are paid to come in are primarily to ensure an adequate number of qualified judges. (We've all been involved at scrambling to find warm bodies for the judges seats in the finals.) There is an opportunity for the appearance of "stacking the judges" in someone's favor. I have suggested that any "hired" judges be currently involved with pattern competition, known as qualified, and be certified by the NSRCA program.

  The effect of the unknowns selection process on scheduling (banquet, etc.) is certainly real. However - F3A is AMA Class 406 and, as such, should be embraced as a very real component of what pattern is by the Society and the rules accommodated. (I would also like to see more Society activity within the F3A rules process - but that's another topic.)

  As the Team Selections are the Nats, there should be no favoritism or extra / hidden agenda that influences decisions that could disadvantage any class relative to another. Understand - there is a Nats Event Director and a Nats CD, there is not also a Team Selection CD. Neither the Team Selection Committee, it's Chairman, or anyone else in the US F3A loop have any say at a TS when the contest has started, and certainly not at the Nats. 

  So - again - it's the intent and definition of the TSC to select the 2007 F3A US Team at the 2006 Nats using the process previously defined for the Nats, it should be transparent. I also understand that there are concerns that have come from experience, open communication is the best method of addressing these.

  Earl 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Grow Pattern" <pattern4u at comcast.net>
  To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
  Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 11:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] USA team trials

  > Earl,
  >          In the last printed format for the 2006 Nationals FAI class was 
  > being run as follows. P-07 on Monday and Tuesday,Semi's on Wednesday flying 
  > F-07, and then Final's on Thursday with two F-07's and two different 
  > unknowns. To run a team trials this would have to be changed.
  > 
  > So I agree with Ron's concern about changing things, (someone get Ron some 
  > smelling salts quick!),  just for FAI team selection needs. I have seen a 
  > lot of that over the years. A team trials has a marked effect upon judge 
  > selection and the payment of the extra judges who come in for the FAI 
  > selection component. It already has spilled over into the social side of the 
  > Nat's where our banquet is now on a Tuesday night so that FAI unknown 
  > schedules can be drawn up on the Wednesday night.
  > 
  > It also puts a lot onto the Nat's event director and invariably the other 
  > classes experience some neglect. I also wonder if it wise to have the same 
  > guy running the Nat's and the team trials, especially when the some of the 
  > top FAI pilots are sponsored directly of indirectly by the same individual.
  > 
  > I would be much happier if the FAI team selection was not run by the AMA 
  > Nat's event director. I would also like to keep the Nat's for the majority 
  > who come for the participation.
  > 
  > Regards,
  > 
  > Eric.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "Earl Haury" <ehaury at houston.rr.com>
  > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
  > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 5:14 PM
  > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] USA team trials
  > 
  > 
  >> Ron
  >>
  >> There is no proposal to change the Nats format for the TS. There is an
  >> additional fee for participation in the program and finals judges are 
  >> being
  >> recruited beforehand. This excerpt from the program should cover concerns
  >> about the event.
  >> "Event Qualification. The US Team will be selected by the order of finish 
  >> in
  >> F3A by U.S. pilots at the 2006 U.S. Nationals. All TSP participants will
  >> have to enter the U.S. Nationals in order to be eligible to make the U.S.
  >> Team."
  >>
  >> Earl
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> ----- Original Message ----- 
  >> From: <vanputte at cox.net>
  >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
  >> Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 2:10 PM
  >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] USA team trials
  >>
  >>
  >>>
  >>>>
  >>>> From: "Earl Haury" <ehaury at houston.rr.com>
  >>>> Date: 2006/03/31 Fri PM 10:08:33 EST
  >>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
  >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] USA team trials
  >>>>
  >>>> The original plan was to hold the Team Selections for the '07 WC at next
  >>>> year's Nats. However, the '07 WC are to be in April of '07 making it
  >>>> necessary to move the TS to this year's Nats. If you, or anyone else, is
  >>>> interested in details / entry forms please contact Lisa Johnson
  >>>> (lisaj at modelaircraft.org), AMA Competitions Dept.
  >>>
  >>> My fear, which is justified based on what AMA tried to do before, is that
  >>> there will be an attempt by AMA personnel to abbreviate the Nats events 
  >>> in
  >>> the case of bad weather, so that the Team Selection can be completed.  I
  >>> believe that the best combination of Nats and F3A Team Selection is to 
  >>> say
  >>> the the U.S. team is the top three placing U.S. citizens in F3A at the
  >>> Nats.  Period.
  >>>
  >>> Ron Van Putte
  >>>
  >>
  >>
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