Electrics

[Ron Van Putte]

On Sep 23, 2005, at 3:36 PM, Jason wrote:

> I don't think anyone is hiding anything, I think "everyone" wants to 
> hear
> how bad electrics are. Chad's admitted to his problems, and the 
> reasons he's
> had them. I'm not hiding anything. And any "problems" I've had have 
> been
> reported. I don't think others are hiding anything either. Most of the
> problems you read about are from testing the product, sometimes beyond 
> the
> limits, and that's what is reported. When I was at Hacker, any pattern
> related problems were due to the customer doing tests like a glow 
> set-up.
> One can't do that with electrics. If you can experiment, with-in the 
> bounds
> of the parts, you won't have problems. But if you go beyond that, 
> that's
> when issues arise. I see some that have posted flying 2 flights off of 
> one
> charge on a battery pack. I know if I did that with my 
> Hacker/ThunderPower
> set-up I'd ruin the packs. And when I was at the Worlds, I did 
> re-grease my
> gearbox once. 20 minutes later it was back in the plane and ready to 
> go. I'm
> not saying that electrics are perfect, cause they're not. But if you 
> take
> the time to learn about them, and do things right, they are another
> alternative in the pattern world. I'm just glad that people like Chad 
> and
> Tony are around to really do some organized testing, it makes me feel 
> better
> that my messy testing is better kept quiet. But I'll answer any 
> questions
> about electrics the best I can. And the first answer is, Electrics are 
> NOT
> for everyone!

Amen to the last statement.  I have a small hobby shop and I am careful 
who I sell lithium polymer battery packs to.  If I hear the guy saying, 
"Oops!" a lot out at the flying field, I won't sell him any lithium 
polymer battery packs, just to save him from himself.  We all know the 
guy who says, as he's staring at the transmitter screen after crashing 
his airplane, "Oops!  This is Model #3, not Model #2"  That guy doesn't 
get lithium polymer batteries from me.

Ron Van Putte

> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of J.Oddino
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 1:20 PM
> To: chad at f3acanada.org; discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: Electric Airframes
>
>
> Chad,
> Thanks for the info.  I wish everyone would appreciate what you 
> pioneers are
> doing instead of badmouthing the fact that the bad news is not 
> reported.  It
> is interesting that the human seems to like bad news as long as it is
> happening to someone else and justifies their opinions.
>
> As far as I am concerned it is our rules, that drive us to glow 
> engines,
> that has retarded the expansion of pattern competition while IMAC keeps
> growing.  Look at this list and see what is the most popular 
> (problematic?)
> subject.  Engines, mounts, headers, pipes, pumps, fuel regulators, 
> tanks,
> etc., etc. What is the real life cycle cost of a competitive pattern 
> engine
> and how many do you need per season?  Anyone got that data?
>
> I'm particularly interested in the lighter feel.  Does that mean light 
> on
> the controls or bouncing around light?  I would think the faster flying
> plane would be more responsive to the stick and more stable but maybe 
> it has
> something to do with the larger slipstream off the electric prop.
> You didn't say if the Twister would be electric?  It will be 
> interesting to
> see how many folks go back to glow after flying electric.
>
> Jim O
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chad Northeast" <chad at f3acanada.org>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Electric Airframes
>
>
>> Over the years I have had 3 ZN Enigmas, 2 of them electric (both 
>> weighed
>> 4670 grams - 10.3 lbs) and 1 glow ( 4600 grams - 10.1 lbs dry).
>>
>> None were built any different than the others, all used the stock kit
>> parts and all were built to take glow in case the electric didnt work
>> out and they needed to be switched.  The glow model has survived 
>> around
>> 1500 flights on it over a number of years, so I suspect the electric
>> models would last for 10,000 if given the opportunity!
>>
>> Now, the electric could be made a bit lighter, mostly in the 
>> wings/stab
>> as the fuse is already very light and I would be concerned with losing
>> rigidty should it be made much lighter (less cloth/resin).  The big
>> problem in doing this is that the wingloading is all wrong for the 
>> model
>> now.  My electric Enigma's feel noticably lighter in the air than the
>> glow one and I would not want them any lighter than they are.  I toyed
>> with the idea of increasing the weight but decided to just leave them
>> alone and get used to it.  In very smooth calm air a light airplane is
>> great, but they dont make for good all around models that need to deal
>> with turbulence and wind that is usually common!
>>
>> I will be getting ZN's new Twister as my plane for next year and the
>> wings are slightly smaller than the Enigma's so I will shoot for
>> somewhere between 10.25-10.5 lbs as a target weight RTF.
>>
>> Thats my take on it anyways!
>>
>> Chad
>>
>> Chuck Hochhalter wrote:
>>
>>> Alright now, going beyond the motor setup, how about the actual
>>> airframe itself.  For certain the weight of the airframe is a huge
>>> factor.  Lighter is better esp for electrics as you can run a
>>> potentially different battery setup as current, watts etc are
>>> decreased (?).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do the stresses on the basic internal structure change enough to 
>>> allow
>>> a plane to be built significantly differently and lighter in areas
>>> that were OVER built for the stresses of large vibrating IC motors?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let take for instance a light wooden plane such as Mark Hunts
>>> Insight.  I think it weighs like 9lbs 8 oz with a 140 sport in it.
>>> Guessing at the conversion straight to electric it would now weigh
>>> around 9 lbs 14 ozs running 5s4p dual packs and an AXI setup.  If the
>>> air frame was reengineered in a way to allow it to be built around 9
>>> lbs and remain as strong but because of the lower overall weight go 
>>> to
>>> a smaller battery say the 5s3p packs and still see the same
>>> performance and duration?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I may be changing too many variables for a straight answer but the
>>> general idea I think you get.  Just some thoughts (how about an all
>>> depron 2 meter) hmm.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for your thoughts positive or negative.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
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