2.4 Ghz radio

Thu Nov 17 16:52:21 AKST 2005

Bob,

The DX6 is just such a  radio system. The problem is why invest more money 
to develop a 72mhz system that does this when the 2.4ghz system has other 
advantages over the 72mhz stuff. Plus the fact that we in the RC industry 
are slow to change as some changes like this one can make previous equipment 
obsolete and in some cases no longer useable. The FCC doesn't require model 
systems on 72mhz to use some type of scanning system, not that this wouldn't 
be useful...Just that it is not a part of the rules to play on 72mhz. On 
2.4ghz it is part of the rules. Competition in the market place sometimes 
drives the show. Not that it has in this case. I don't know. I don't have 
any inside info on it.

There are lots of advantages in going to 2.4ghz as the band in use. One 
could be bandwidth and the amount of info capable to send on the signal. 
Another huge one that I know for a fact is that model generated RF noise is 
not at this high frequency. SO metal to metal, gas engine ignition systems, 
turbine fuel pumps, and lots of other model generated noise is at lower 
frequency than the 2.4 Ghz. The result is the DSM system is not affected by 
this model generated stuff.

Another reason lets face it modelers are very weary to change. The majority 
of modelers play with their toy airplanes. The manufacturers can offer lots 
of new and technically better products just like Personal computers the 
problem is R+D and marketing makes sense to keep to what works and enhance 
it. The competition guys tend to drive the technology higher and higher, but 
the average guy with his toy airplane doesn't see the need nor is he willing 
to paying for many of the features that will make his experience better. 
Let's face it there are lots of ways to enjoy our hobby and we don't want to 
exclude anyone. Sometimes price can do this.  Horizon Hobby went out on a 
limb with this new technology. It worked! And now they are making it 
available to us modelers.

There is no doubt in my mind that we as modelers could have lots of ideas on 
how to improve our radio systems. Until recently the change has been in 
features offered for the price but still using the same connection as we 
used since about 1990 for the PCM stuff and back into the 70's or before for 
the way the system works. It was before my time for sure. Today the Spektrum 
system has brought us to the Secure link like DSM.

My understanding is this scanning and frequency use system is fairly new 
technology by the time it trickles down to modelers it has been around the 
real world for a while. Even if JR or Futaba would produce a 72mhz scanning 
system, the result is the cries from modelers all over the country..."Don't 
make my old stuff obsolete" so the chances could still be that the pilot 
could still be shot down. In order for this to work all modelers must use 
it...They won't....Just like so many people that won't use PCM today even 
though it is an even more secure link than FM (PPM) systems. Look at the 
people that fly Airtronics, Futaba, JR, Hitec, and Your Polk's Hobby system. 
If say JR announce all their radios are scanning capable then another 
company could come in and say we can sell it cheaper because you don't need 
it...The reality is we don't need it if everybody watches the frequency 
control system of their local flying field.

The 2.4ghz system is new and it is mandated by the FCC that it be a scanning 
type of system, and the result is all 2.4ghz system will be on it...So once 
we all go to flying Spektrum radios you will have your safety...Or at least 
the guys that are flying on 2.4Ghz systems will have it and the rest of the 
modelers that want to use their 72mhz stuff will still need to be concerned 
with frequency control.

Spektrum is a solution to this. Is it available for that Pattern model..Not 
yet! But the DX6 is the first step in that direction.

I know I will not fly any park flyers or foamy models on anything else. It 
so easy and simple...No frequency control is nice.

Troy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob" <Bob at enduremed.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: FW: 2.4 Ghz radio

Group:

The following is from a friend who is currently useing the Polk Hobbies 
Tracker system in not so valuable planes, as am I.  Reactions?

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Verlander [mailto:bobverlander at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 1:07 PM
To: Bob
Subject: RE: 2.4 Ghz radio

Bob,

Do me a favor.  How about asking Troy Norman (JR Team member) or the 
discussion group, why JR and other major RC system manufactures do not use 
the technique employed in Poke Hobby's Tracker 2 & 3 transmitters of 
scanning the frequency the transmitter is on to insure that the frequency is 
not in use before actually transmitting RF,  pointing out that if Polk can 
sell their whole system (Tx w/battery, Rx w/battery/switch and one servo) 
for $200 it surely can't be a cost factor.  If ALL transmitters were 
REQUIRED to have this capability Andrew Jesky wouldn't have lost his 40% 
Yak.  There may be some technical reason you and I haven't thought of. 
Thanks

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob [mailto:Bob at enduremed.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 12:16 PM
To: bobverlander at yahoo.com; Jon
Subject: FW: 2.4 Ghz radio

-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On 
Behalf Of Troy A. Newman
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:44 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: 2.4 Ghz radio

Right now the system is designed to be small and lightweight. The RX's are
6channel, and the servos are little park flyer 7.5g sized servos. This
system is sold as a complete package where weight is critical. This is why
it is geared toward parkflyers and foamies. The RX weighs only about
7-8grams. This technology is perfect for the park flyer market. The park
flyer market has special needs where weight is critical. Sport models have
different needs from the parkies and then the big airplanes pattern models
included have different needs from Sport models. Horizon is producing the
DX6 systems to meet the needs of the parkie market right now. This is why it
is introduced here first.

Now as far as range goes. I have flown it a bunch in many models and have
not had any range issues. In fact the range has been as far as I can see to
fly the thing. There are not any restriction I know of the range of the
system like 1500ft. In fact I have had a model well further away that
number. It is however true that the size of the models the system is
intended for will limit their range as you can't see the smaller park flyers
as far away as a 40% model. I don't think range is the issue with this
system. I think it comes down more to the size of the stuff in it. The micro
servos, the tiny 6channel RX. We all know that this park flyer system is not
the end of the technology its merely the beginning.

Also for Note this is not a JR radio. This is a Horizon Hobby Radio product.
JR has been involved with it and its JR quality stuff. In the future we can
look to what Spektrum has done already with the car markets. Right now
Spektrum produces a module that plugs directly into a current radio and
drives the Spektrum RX's. For cars Spektrum makes these modules for
Airtronics, JR, Hitec and yes Futaba TX's.
I would suspect this is the direction that Horizon may take with this
product. I have no inside info on this part of it but this is what they have
already done in the RC car market.

Yes I have been flying this radio (DX6) for many months and it works very
very well. This system is truly revolutionary. I think it is a huge step for
Horizon to offer this type of product to the average modeler first. The
radio is $199. In the past the latest technology, PCM, 1024PCM, now G3 PCM
from another manufacturer, and computer radios in general when they were
new....only were offered at the top tier of the radio market. Now anybody
can get their hands on a system that offers the secure TX to RX link that
Spektrum offers, and really solves many of the park flyer problems at local
fields.

Take Andrew Jesky loosing his 40% QQ Yak at the AMA site this past spring. A
guy with a foamy fired up in the parking lot and a $8000-$10,000 model was
gone on like its 3rd flight.

The point being is that no matter how much money you have in a model, no
matter how good of TX you have 10x 14mz, 56klx or what ever...a 4 channel AM
system on your frequency will shoot you down! With the Spektrum system this
shoot down problem is gone. It can't happen. Because of the way the system
works.

By the way priced at $199 the DX6 system is very competitive with any of the
6channel radio systems out there. By the way this is what most modelers at
the local fields are flying 6 channel computer radios.

It will come just be patient. You can bet they are working on it for the
average models.

Troy Newman
Team JR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Cohen" <precisionaero at comcast.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:39 AM
Subject: Re: 2.4 Ghz radio

> Usually JR swings for the fences.  I thought it was a little odd they did
> not do that on this product.  I did look in the ad's fine print for any
> restictions and did not see any.
>
> Troy, you said you are using this system now.  Is it different from the
> one being advertised?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Thompson" <mrandmrst at comcast.net>
> To: "Michael Cohen" <precisionaero at comcast.net>; <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 3:53 AM
> Subject: Re: 2.4 Ghz radio
>
>
>>I could be mistaken Mike, but I believe they only rate the usage distance
>>at 1500 ft., hence the park flyer rating.  In the Flying Cirkus forum
>>there was a test done, with JR's system using GPS, and the product worked,
>>100% glitch free, to 1/2 mile.
>> Take a look at this link:
>>
>> http://www.flyingcirkus.com/forum/Flew_and_Biff-_tested_JR_Spread_Spectrum/m_96209/tm.htm
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Cohen" <precisionaero at comcast.net>
>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 11:39 PM
>> Subject: 2.4 Ghz radio
>>
>>
>>> So, now I see the ad for the Spektrum radio in Model Airplane News, yet
>>> it is geared towards park flyers and electric helicopters.  Why not
>>> large scale models and 40% IMAC birds?
>>>
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>
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