F3A judges for local comps

Thu Nov 10 01:59:35 AKST 2005

Hi Dean,

Thanks for your suggestion. I need to sit down with a nice glass of red and
a clear head so that my poor little brain can absorb what you have said.

I think I get your approach and I will give it some serious consideration. I
will try and draw up a matrix which matches your logic so I can understand
better.

Thanks again, you're a legend

Peter

Peter Pennisi
Pentagon Systems QLD Pty Ltd
P.O Box 4280
Eight Mile Plains
QLD 4113
Australia
Phone:    61+0738414234
Fax:        61+0738414264
Mobile:   0408007206
Email: pentagon.systems at bigpond.com
-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Dean Pappas
Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 12:01 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: RE: F3A judges for local comps

Hi Pete,
So you are in a bind. Let me add another way-out possibility to the mix.
Let's say you have a different one or two out of "N" pilots, in the class,
skip each round, and judge instead.
You total up the scores of those two judges, and assign the pilots who did
fly in the round an ordinal ranking.

Why an ordinal? Because trying to mix scores in an uneven exposure situation
is problematic, and preserving the actual point spreads offers several ways
for a judging competitor to be ... ahem ... strategic. All you preserve from
each round is a direct, better or not, comparison of one pilot against each
other, in the round. This still offers a crooked competitor a way to booger
the results, but this setup is not being offered up as any kind of ideal!

 First, you have to juggle the number of judges per round, and the number of
rounds so that no one sits out a comparatively large number of rounds, and
also so that no one ever judges with the same other person(s) twice. This
will not be trivial, but not everyone needs to judge. It might be nice ...
It will probably dictate how many rounds are flown. In the case of weather
problems, ties are easily possible, unless each flier in contention has
flown at least one round against each other contender.

 Because of the mixing, each competitor will get a chance to be directly
compared to each other competitor, for at least a good portion of the
rounds. That's why you never judge with the same guy twice: you want to be
compared to him, too.You average all the ordinals a pilot got, and compare
those, at the end of the contest. low number wins. Rounds judged don't count
in the average, and missed rounds are assigned last place. You might decide
to drop a pilot's worst ordinal, before averaging.

I know it's a wacky setup, but if there was only one class of Pattern,
something like this might have happened. You know that there were, once upon
a time, such things as club judges!

Dean

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: discussion-request at nsrca.org on behalf of Dave Burton 
	Sent: Wed 11/9/2005 6:17 PM 
	To: Peter Pennisi; discussion at nsrca.org 
	Cc: 
	Subject: RE: F3A judges for local comps

	I think it's a good idea, except I'd suggest not dropping the high
and low
	scores. Let them all count and IMO you'll get a better result.
	Dave Burton

	-----Original Message-----
	From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
	[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Peter Pennisi
	Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 5:42 PM
	To: discussion at nsrca.org
	Subject: F3A judges for local comps

	We currently have a big problem with the number of experienced
flyers which
	show up at comps. We have a healthy number of F3A flyers and a good
number
	of new and very inexperienced sportsman class flyers. Unfortunately
our
	middle ranks have been decimated for reasons I am not really sure
about
	(that is a topic for another day).

	Anyway this leaves us very short for experienced judges who a
capable of
	judging F3A.

	We a going to try an experiment by having F3A flyers judge each
other for
	the comp. Lets say we have five F3A flyers -while one fly's the
others judge
	that flight which gives us four judges. We will drop the highest and
lowest
	scores and the other scores will be averaged to arrive at a flight
score and
	so forth.

	Results for each of the rounds will not be available until the end
of the
	comp and flyers are not to discuss anything about judging the
flights until
	the end of the comp.

	Has anyone tried this and are there any other suggestions we can use
to make
	it work.

	The approach will fail if competitors team up to try and force a
result but
	the guys involved are not that type.

	What do you all think?

	Peter

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