[SPAM] RE: calling complete for new takeoff

[vicenterc at comcast.net]

I am reading the landing sequence on page 7 of the NSRCA Judging program and certification training.  It appears that in any class you can NOT do any maneuvers that is not described in the landing sequence.  The  first downgrade is: "Model does not follow landing sequence, zero (0)".  My interpretation after reading is that the landing sequence does not allows for any other turn around maneuver.  For intermediate allows for optional 360 degree turn.  If we finish down wind you could do a 360 and then 180 to land. It appears correct after drwaing a picture in a piece of paper.  Of course the 360 turn should be away from the pits. 

However, yesterday we were doing a judge calibration training for intermediate.  The pilot did a turn around maneuver and two 180 degrees to land.  One of the judges gave a zero.  After some discussion all decided that was that was not a zero.  However, I think the judge was correct since the plane did not follow the landing sequence.  Clearly, the pilot has the option to do one 180 degree turn to land in this case.  In conclusion, looks like the only judge that gave a zero was correct.  We were lucky since this was a practice section.  

My interpretation:  It appears that that if we don't know how to perform 90, 180, 270 and 360 degree turns you could earn a zero in landing or take off.  90, 180 and 270 degree turns allowed in take of sequence only (see combinations in the rule book).  Please notice that in the take off sequence allows one turn around maneuver as pilot option.  Landing allows 2-180 degree turns for all classes but intermediate.  In intermediate allows one 180 degree turn and one optional 360 degree turn (pilot option).  It appears clear to me now.  Am I right?

Vince Bortone
-------------- Original message -------------- 

I would love nothing more than to see a ruling/clarification from the AMA Contest board to the effect you state below....problem solved, discussion complete until time for a re-write in the future rules cycle.

Until then, as a contestant or judge, it is inappropriate and goes against all that is good about pattern to interpret the "spirit" of the written rule and judge takeoffs/landing to whatever standard my "common sense" provides.  After all, my "common sense" and yours may not be the same...I may see it "common sense" to do a humpty-bump with a full roll in the downline to turnaround and set up for final after ending downwind on the intermediate sequence, while your common sense may see it as a nice round zero....

It appears that what the CD's (at least so far in D6) seem to be doing is applying their own "common sense", and allowing some discussion at the pilot meetings and then announcing that a runway landing is a 10 and off-runway landing is  zero...same for takeoffs.  It's unfortunate that this is having to be done this way, and it may be setting up more than a few contestants for alot of zeros at the Nats, where the AMA is king, and you'll have the same folks who's "common sense" created the rule running the show...somehow.

Richard





From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Grow Pattern
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 3:08 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: calling complete for new takeoff



The spirit of the new rule is to get us to take-off, execute a positioning procedure before we enter the box. WITHOUT goofing around. Similarly for landings.

The English is off a little but common sense should prevail especially as the season wears on. Just remember that idea was to save time during a contest and then it should work.

Having judged the FAI  procedures I can tell you that it is a pain watching a plane for all of the flight. C'est la vie!

Regards,

Eric.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Charlie Rock 
To: discussion at nsrca.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: calling complete for new takeoff


I agree what was broken with the way of years past...Nothing that I have seen..I can not wait for the my first contest and hear a zero called for a takeoff that was perfectly good last year and now is a zero for no wings level or some such..Charlie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Grow Pattern 
To: discussion at nsrca.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: calling complete for new takeoff


The FAI system is a take-off procedure and landing procedure. They also use a time-to-do-the-schedule system. They changed over to the 0  or 10 system to prevent hot-dogging, time-wasting and maneuver practicing during a contest.

Did we have that problem? What was broken??

Eric.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Don Ramsey 
To: discussion at nsrca.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:10 AM
Subject: calling complete for new takeoff


The simple answer is call the takeoff complete when it is complete and that is when the turnaround is done just before the call for "entering the box."  Call the landing when it begins and that is just after the last maneuver in the sequence or after the plane is "out of the box" at the end of the sequence.  You could call "exit the box, landing sequence".  The landing is complete after the model has rolled 10 meters and is below flying speed.  The question is, what is the downgrade if the calls are not made?  The only downgrade is 10 points resulting is zero if this was the intent of the regs (I'm almost certain this was not intended).  There are areas of the new rules that seem to leave some area for wiggle here so I'll have something official on this soon.

Don 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Steven Maxwell 
To: discussion at nsrca.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 2:17 AM
Subject: Re: calling complete for new takeoff


The main question came from a new sportsman pilot that will be atending his first contest next weekend, he helped scribe last year at the D4 D5 shootout and knows how it was done last year, it's a real simple question and theres not an answer to it yet.
 When does he call complete for takeoff?
 When does he call start for the landing? 

 Steve Maxwell 
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