Landing Direction; Spins, and Snaps. . .

[Ron Van Putte]

On Jun 14, 2005, at 8:11 PM, Grow Pattern wrote:

> Verne,
>            I was asking because the Nat's are coming up real soon.it 
> is interesting that you all were at the Nat's site. Hard-top rolling 
> starts are a pain to manage.
>
> I am hoping that we get clear rules language to use ay Muncie. I had 
> not seen it written anywhere and was curious if it was lurking in some 
> obscure text?

The way I read the rule book is:  Since it doesn't say you may not have 
a rolling start, you may do one with no penalty.  I'm not sure what is 
complicated about that.

Ron Van Putte

>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Verne Koester" <verne at twmi.rr.com>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 11:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Landing Direction; Spins, and Snaps. . .
>
>
>> Eric,
>> As you know, until the clean-up proposal works its way through the 
>> process, most of the peripheral rules have to be addressed at the 
>> pilots meeting. At the shootout it was kept very simple. Get the 
>> thing in the air without going off the side of the runway and it's a 
>> 10. Land the thing on the pavement w/o anything falling off and its a 
>> 10. The only rule imposed regarding turns after takeoff and before 
>> landing was that if you did any hotdogging, you were getting a 0. All 
>> the other stuff was out the window. It wasn't my meeting, but I'm 
>> pretty sure it was done this way to avoid a long meeting where every 
>> detail was beaten to death. Short answer to your question is that 
>> most planes DID roll a little when the helper let go and it was 
>> ignored. I'm not saying this is the best way, but it DID work very 
>> well.
>>
>> Having said all that, I think it's important to remember that this 
>> rule, whether good or bad, doesn't give anyone a distinct advantage 
>> over anyone else. The playing field is still level. Clearly, we're 
>> revisiting this soon in the survey. My intentions are to listen to 
>> what everyone has to say and observe what I physically see at the 
>> contests I attend. My vote in the survey and ultimately as a Contest 
>> Board Member will be based on both of those things. The biggest plus 
>> I experienced so far is that it seemed that everyone was making a 
>> conscious effort to point the nose of their planes out on takeoff and 
>> this was in conditions where the plane crabs in naturally (crosswind 
>> blowing out). This is the first contest I've attended in quite awhile 
>> where I never got buzzed either as a pilot or a caller by someone 
>> taking off and that was most appreciated. However, that was only one 
>> contest and there's plenty more to look at down the road.
>>
>> Verne
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grow Pattern" 
>> <pattern4u at comcast.net>
>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: Landing Direction; Spins, and Snaps. . .
>>
>>
>>> What is the rule this year if the plane is rolling as soon as the 
>>> helper lets go?
>>>
>>> Eric.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Verne Koester" 
>>> <verne at twmi.rr.com>
>>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:28 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Landing Direction; Spins, and Snaps. . .
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bob,
>>>> I think your scenario is the hidden place where real time is saved, 
>>>> particularly on pavement where the idle has to be very low to keep 
>>>> the plane from rolling forward a little prior to takeoff. Last 
>>>> weekend in Muncie, over 125 takeoffs occurred on Saturday over the 
>>>> course of 4 rounds. I don't recall a single instance where a plane 
>>>> quit out on the line and had to be brought in and restarted. It's 
>>>> been pointed out that there are other rules changes could 
>>>> accomplish the same thing and that's true. Right now, I'm just 
>>>> watching and trying to assess what's good and what's bad about the 
>>>> rules in place at the moment. My general perception after just one 
>>>> contest on pavement is that things seemed to go quicker and safer 
>>>> under the conditions we were flying in. There are many more 
>>>> contests to observe before the full impact can be truly evaluated.
>>>>
>>>> Verne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Richards" 
>>>> <bob at toprudder.com>
>>>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:37 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Landing Direction; Spins, and Snaps. . .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have really been trying to stay out of the "scoring
>>>>> TO and Landings" discussion since I voiced my opinion
>>>>> way back when. However, I will add some real-world
>>>>> data regarding time savings.
>>>>>
>>>>> During one round at the '93 Nats, I had an engine that
>>>>> would not idle down without cutting off. I did
>>>>> eventually get airborne, but ended up zeroing the
>>>>> flight since I took 10 seconds over the required time
>>>>> to get airborne. I understand the time limit is to
>>>>> keep things moving, but in this case it did anything
>>>>> but. I flew the whole flight, and the judges judged
>>>>> the whole flight, the scribes wrote down every score.
>>>>> It was not until I landed that I found out the round
>>>>> was zeroed, and only because I saw the scribes erasing
>>>>> the scores. It wasted a lot of people's time.
>>>>>
>>>>> The line judge should have immediately told me to stop
>>>>> and let the next contestant fly, but I think he was
>>>>> doing everything he could to be fair and wanted to
>>>>> double check the rules. In fact, since I did get
>>>>> airborne and was only 10 seconds over, he was going to
>>>>> let it go until someone else not even flying in my
>>>>> class complained.
>>>>>
>>>>> This whole episode was a bad experience for several
>>>>> people, and would have been avoided entirely and saved
>>>>> a LOT of time if the takeoff had not been scored.
>>>>>
>>>>> I learned to land/takeoff very well LONG before I
>>>>> started flying pattern. However, I understand the
>>>>> viewpoint of others, and I can see the point of
>>>>> requiring scored takeoffs/landings in Sportsman and
>>>>> Intermediate, much the way Novice used to have
>>>>> straight flight out/back scored. It is an element that
>>>>> is important and should be learned early.
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob R.
>>>>>
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