Landing Direction; Spins, and Snaps. . .

[Grow Pattern]

Verne,
            I was asking because the Nat's are coming up real soon.it is 
interesting that you all were at the Nat's site. Hard-top rolling starts are 
a pain to manage.

I am hoping that we get clear rules language to use ay Muncie. I had not 
seen it written anywhere and was curious if it was lurking in some obscure 
text?

Eric.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Verne Koester" <verne at twmi.rr.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: Landing Direction; Spins, and Snaps. . .


> Eric,
> As you know, until the clean-up proposal works its way through the 
> process, most of the peripheral rules have to be addressed at the pilots 
> meeting. At the shootout it was kept very simple. Get the thing in the air 
> without going off the side of the runway and it's a 10. Land the thing on 
> the pavement w/o anything falling off and its a 10. The only rule imposed 
> regarding turns after takeoff and before landing was that if you did any 
> hotdogging, you were getting a 0. All the other stuff was out the window. 
> It wasn't my meeting, but I'm pretty sure it was done this way to avoid a 
> long meeting where every detail was beaten to death. Short answer to your 
> question is that most planes DID roll a little when the helper let go and 
> it was ignored. I'm not saying this is the best way, but it DID work very 
> well.
>
> Having said all that, I think it's important to remember that this rule, 
> whether good or bad, doesn't give anyone a distinct advantage over anyone 
> else. The playing field is still level. Clearly, we're revisiting this 
> soon in the survey. My intentions are to listen to what everyone has to 
> say and observe what I physically see at the contests I attend. My vote in 
> the survey and ultimately as a Contest Board Member will be based on both 
> of those things. The biggest plus I experienced so far is that it seemed 
> that everyone was making a conscious effort to point the nose of their 
> planes out on takeoff and this was in conditions where the plane crabs in 
> naturally (crosswind blowing out). This is the first contest I've attended 
> in quite awhile where I never got buzzed either as a pilot or a caller by 
> someone taking off and that was most appreciated. However, that was only 
> one contest and there's plenty more to look at down the road.
>
> Verne
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Grow Pattern" <pattern4u at comcast.net>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:57 AM
> Subject: Re: Landing Direction; Spins, and Snaps. . .
>
>
>> What is the rule this year if the plane is rolling as soon as the helper 
>> lets go?
>>
>> Eric.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Verne Koester" <verne at twmi.rr.com>
>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: Landing Direction; Spins, and Snaps. . .
>>
>>
>>> Bob,
>>> I think your scenario is the hidden place where real time is saved, 
>>> particularly on pavement where the idle has to be very low to keep the 
>>> plane from rolling forward a little prior to takeoff. Last weekend in 
>>> Muncie, over 125 takeoffs occurred on Saturday over the course of 4 
>>> rounds. I don't recall a single instance where a plane quit out on the 
>>> line and had to be brought in and restarted. It's been pointed out that 
>>> there are other rules changes could accomplish the same thing and that's 
>>> true. Right now, I'm just watching and trying to assess what's good and 
>>> what's bad about the rules in place at the moment. My general perception 
>>> after just one contest on pavement is that things seemed to go quicker 
>>> and safer under the conditions we were flying in. There are many more 
>>> contests to observe before the full impact can be truly evaluated.
>>>
>>> Verne
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Bob Richards" <bob at toprudder.com>
>>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:37 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Landing Direction; Spins, and Snaps. . .
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have really been trying to stay out of the "scoring
>>>> TO and Landings" discussion since I voiced my opinion
>>>> way back when. However, I will add some real-world
>>>> data regarding time savings.
>>>>
>>>> During one round at the '93 Nats, I had an engine that
>>>> would not idle down without cutting off. I did
>>>> eventually get airborne, but ended up zeroing the
>>>> flight since I took 10 seconds over the required time
>>>> to get airborne. I understand the time limit is to
>>>> keep things moving, but in this case it did anything
>>>> but. I flew the whole flight, and the judges judged
>>>> the whole flight, the scribes wrote down every score.
>>>> It was not until I landed that I found out the round
>>>> was zeroed, and only because I saw the scribes erasing
>>>> the scores. It wasted a lot of people's time.
>>>>
>>>> The line judge should have immediately told me to stop
>>>> and let the next contestant fly, but I think he was
>>>> doing everything he could to be fair and wanted to
>>>> double check the rules. In fact, since I did get
>>>> airborne and was only 10 seconds over, he was going to
>>>> let it go until someone else not even flying in my
>>>> class complained.
>>>>
>>>> This whole episode was a bad experience for several
>>>> people, and would have been avoided entirely and saved
>>>> a LOT of time if the takeoff had not been scored.
>>>>
>>>> I learned to land/takeoff very well LONG before I
>>>> started flying pattern. However, I understand the
>>>> viewpoint of others, and I can see the point of
>>>> requiring scored takeoffs/landings in Sportsman and
>>>> Intermediate, much the way Novice used to have
>>>> straight flight out/back scored. It is an element that
>>>> is important and should be learned early.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW.
>>>>
>>>> Bob R.
>>>>
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>>>
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