[SPAM] Re: ARESTI - was new patterns

Bill Glaze billglaze at triad.rr.com
Tue Jun 7 10:37:27 AKDT 2005 

Purely anecdotal, but here goes:
Several years ago, I was at an IMAC meet.  (No, actually, really!) and 
there were quite a few newbies.  They had previously asked for a round 
of unknowns, so they could experience what the "big boys" (ahem) were 
doing.  When the unknowns were handed out, (purely in Aresti) there were 
a lot of groans from these newbies.  Consternation, etc.  I'll never 
forget what the co-CD said:  "You guys want to be aerobatic pilots.  
Well, here's your chance; this is what the real IAC pilots use."  Still 
some grumbling, but the newbies were taken under the wings (pun 
intended) of the older (again, ahem) guys, and, when it was time to fly, 
they ALL knew what they were to do.  And, they had a working knowledge 
of Aresti.  It simply isn't that hard.  And, it's so much more 
descriptive than text.  With text, it's reading, digesting what's read, 
then trying to visualize what the text means translated into a 
maneuver..  With Aresti, just jump immediately to the maneuver, and 
figure the control inputs to follow the picture.
One picture is worth.............well, you've heard it before.

Bill Glaze

Rick Wallace wrote:

> Just a thought on using Aresti notation - it CAN'T be the only 
> graphical presentation for the schedules. if we're serious about 
> encouraging new pilots to try this stuff out, we have to make our 
> diagrams understandable to the average bear.
>
> Aresti IS great, and many communities use it,  but it's another (very 
> precise) language. A guy struggling through the classes has enough to 
> learn about building/trimming/positioning/geometry without having to 
> decipher an unfamiliar set of drawings in order to figure out what 
> maneuver to fly.
>
> We should NOT tie membership in the pattern community to learning this 
> new language to understand what maneuvers to fly. If we do it'll only 
> raise the par a bit higher than it already is.
>
> I'll stick to my Powerpoint pictures for the time being (available for 
> current AMA sequences, btw, at http://www.ocmrc.us/NSRCAD1/home.htm)
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Ed Alt" <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> >Subject: Re: new patterns
> >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:15:37 -0400
> >
> >John:
> >The big advantage of using Aresti is that it leaves nothing to doubt
> >about what is supposed to be flown (asuming you draw it right).  If
> >you know how to read it, there is nothing left to discuss about what
> >you are expected to do to fly each figure.  I'm probably the last
> >guy to want to adopt something just for the sake of doing something
> >new, or because it's foreign.
> >
> >BTW,  several of my friends from my IMAC days expressed a first time
> >interest in Pattern after I talked their ears off about it.  They
> >WANT Aresti's.  That's the language that they are used to seeing.
> >
> >Regards
> >Ed
> >
> >>From: "John Ferrell" <johnferrell at earthlink.net>
> >>Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> >>To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> >>Subject: Re: new patterns
> >>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:25:30 -0400
> >>
> >>I understand that many folks read and prefer the Areisti diagrams.
> >>To me they are a giant step back and are related to hieroglyphics
> >>found on cave walls. I bought a used Chrysler minivan nearly a year
> >>ago and it is still not clear to me what all the 'glyphs mean. I
> >>can recognize the heated seat switch now, but I still don't know
> >>which is warmer, the one with three dotted lines through it or the
> >>one with one dotted line through it.
> >>
> >>As near as I can figure, there are lots of folks enamored with all
> >>things foreign!
> >>
> >>
> >>John Ferrell
> >>http://DixieNC.US
> >>
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy A. Newman"
> >><troy_newman at msn.com>
> >>To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:30 AM
> >>Subject: Re: new patterns
> >>
> >>
> >>>List et al,
> >>>
> >>>The reality of this is the work that was done was submitted to the
> >>>President
> >>>of the NSRCA. Before I was ready to release documents to the
> >>>general public,
> >>>I was waiting for an approval by the Board. Not that there is
> >>>anything
> >>>hidden about it. Just that the Board commissioned the committee
> >>>and it
> >>>reports back to the Board. I have not heard any comments from the
> >>>Board.
> >>>Once the Board said OK it looks like you fulfilled the charter
> >>>that you were
> >>>given.....then I was going to release the documents on the
> >>>Internet. It is
> >>>my firm belief that the Board will be as pleased with the results
> >>>as I. If
> >>>there were serious issues I would not have submitted the results
> >>>regardless
> >>>of the Deadline. The old idea of the cook not showing the cake
> >>>until he
> >>>verifies the kids name is spelled correctly applies here. The Cake
> >>>is on its
> >>>way the work is complete. I don't want to post something and then
> >>>have it
> >>>change in 2-3 days. This adds confusion to the situation. These
> >>>are NSRCA
> >>>proposals and as such the NSRCA Board of Directors should know
> >>>what is being
> >>>done before its released to the hungry crowd. This is a formality
> >>>that was
> >>>agreed upon before work was begun. June 1st was the deadline So
> >>>its been
> >>>just a few days since it was sent out to the VPs from Lamar. Lance
> >>>I
> >>>appreciate your comments as a member of the Board.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>For all of you that don't know. The new sequences will be
> >>>presented in both
> >>>the traditional words as we have used in Pattern and also Aresti
> >>>as a
> >>>graphical shorthand. IMAC uses this graphical shorthand
> >>>exclusively. Our
> >>>section of the hobby is a little different, in the way things are
> >>>done. The
> >>>words and the Aresti in FAI carry equal weight. A main reason for
> >>>this is
> >>>language barriers. The Aresti is more difficult to read sometimes,
> >>>but once
> >>>you send a little time with it begins to make a huge amount of
> >>>sense. We in
> >>>the F3A class flying unknowns use the Aresti to tell us the
> >>>general
> >>>shapes...what is this thing suppose to resemble? It works well. We
> >>>as a
> >>>committee felt that Aresti was a good thing to introduce to AMA
> >>>pattern. So
> >>>I have the program and am currently getting all the Aresti
> >>>documents done.
> >>>This is in addition to the traditional descriptions that we have
> >>>had
> >>>forever. So its like getting Peas and Carrots. Both serve a
> >>>purpose and will
> >>>help define the figures they represent.
> >>>
> >>>To quickly answer a couple questions. FAI current has the golf
> >>>ball and the
> >>>reverse golf ball in its catalog. It is basically a vertical gold
> >>>fish or
> >>>Half of a Cuban 8 that is vertical. The 45's cross with the roll
> >>>elements
> >>>and the loop is 3/4 of a circle. A Golf Ball has the loop at the
> >>>top. So the
> >>>model pulls or pushes to a 45 upline performs the required roll
> >>>element on
> >>>center  if there is a roll. Then Loops 270degs to the downline 45
> >>>and
> >>>performs the required roll element on center.The rolls cross at
> >>>center like
> >>>a Cuban 8.  So if you were to draw a Cuban 8 with only one of the
> >>>loops but
> >>>both 45's...then turn it to the loop side up it looks like a golf
> >>>ball
> >>>sitting on a  tee. A Reverse Golf ball as in the proposed Masters
> >>>for the
> >>>Survey is this same figure but from the top and the loop portion
> >>>is on the
> >>>bottom. IMAC and the current FAI patterns have a gold fish in
> >>>them. The golf
> >>>ball is a vertical gold fish.
> >>>
> >>>Spring Coil. Basically this a variation on a figure 9....models
> >>>performs
> >>>1-1/2 loops at the top of a vertical upline. The figure in
> >>>question has the
> >>>pilots option for inside or outside 1-1/2loop. Basically a figure
> >>>9 but
> >>>instead of 270degs of loop its 540degs. This is 540degs of a
> >>>circle to come
> >>>back down on a vertical. So its a figure 9 style maneuver that
> >>>starts and
> >>>ends at base altitude.
> >>>
> >>>Descriptors for new things are following however there are not
> >>>many new
> >>>figures.
> >>>
> >>>I know these have been flown a bunch. Both the guys in the groups
> >>>that
> >>>developed each set flew them and I as well as others flew them
> >>>too.
> >>>
> >>>There are no secrets and everything will be posted and available
> >>>to all. I
> >>>have been fighting a computer that locks up everytime I open
> >>>word-excel-Explorer-visio. Luckily Email works. I hope Dell will
> >>>have the
> >>>solution on Friday of this coming week when the new box arrives.
> >>>Amazing how
> >>>Win98 is not really supported and you get told if your machine is
> >>>5yrs old
> >>>its a piece of crap and throw it away. When my new machine gets
> >>>going I will
> >>>get a finished set of documents to answer your questions. Aresti
> >>>and English
> >>>explanations will help clarify the problems.
> >>>
> >>>Lastly I want to thank the guys on the Teams that created the
> >>>sequences. You
> >>>will have all their names and credit will be handed out to the
> >>>guys that did
> >>>the grunt work. I only gathered the info and combined it. A few
> >>>changes were
> >>>made on individual figures to meet KF goals or improve the
> >>>flow....but the
> >>>meat and potatoes work that has been done is the ideas and goals
> >>>of about
> >>>15-20 people. I think you all will be as proud of the outcome as I
> >>>am.
> >>>
> >>>So thanks for the Hard Work from you guys on the Team!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Troy Newman
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Smith"
> >>><dentdoc007 at adelphia.net>
> >>>To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> >>>Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:11 AM
> >>>Subject: RE: new patterns
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Lamar has them.
> >>>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> >>>>[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
> >>>>On Behalf Of Jim Ivey
> >>>>Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 1:32 PM
> >>>>To: discussion at nsrca.org
> >>>>Subject: new patterns
> >>>>
> >>>>  Hey
> >>>>Where can I find the new proposed patterns?Guess I am overlooking
> >>>>them.
> >>>>
> >>>>Jim Ivey
> >>>>
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