Scoring formula

Sat Jul 30 09:36:08 AKDT 2005

I stand by my original statement.
If we're going to fatigue flyers further by requiring them to judge, too, 
the most minimally-courteous and respectful thing to do is USE the result of 
their effort.

If a "mediocre" judge is the one deciding the WINNER.... then we really have 
a FAR greater problem in the game.

Interesting thought, Jim.  Keep all the mediocre scores to decide the BEST 
flyer...... hmmmmmmm

Bob Pastorello
www.rcaerobats.net
rcaerobob at cox.net
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J.Oddino" <joddino at socal.rr.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Scoring formula

> Years ago we had a great judge who always judged on the high side.  Of
> course everyone loved him.  When asked about it, he said he wanted to be 
> the
> guy who decided who won the contest.  Even if they don't throw out the 
> high
> and low judges they do throw out the low flights.  It does not pay (the
> judge) to judge low.
> Jim O
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bob Pastorello" <rcaerobob at cox.net>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 3:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Scoring formula
>
>
>> I remember a Nats (a few years' back) when I *was* the toughest judge on
> the
>> FAI line, both Prelims and Finals.  I know because the CD came up and 
>> told
>> me "you're being too hard".  Okay.  After it was all done, my higher
> scores
>> tracked the overall placements of the standings pretty darn well.  I felt
>> pretty good about that, because there were some pretty high-falutin 
>> judges
>> on my panel with me!!
>>
>> Then I learned - quite by accident - that my scores HAD been tossed.
> EVERY
>> round that I sat there, doing my damndest to be consistent, fair, and
>> downgrade by the rulebook....in the heat and wind, only to learn that I
> DID
>> NOT NEED TO BE THERE !!!!!
>>
>> Some stupid jerk actually had the gall to justify that by telling me
> "since
>> your scores got tossed, that makes the other judges' scores more
> accurate".
>> I didn't wring that guys' neck....but he also made it to my list of
> "persons
>> likely to be left out of my will".... :-)
>>
>> Actually had someone ask me a couple years later, "Why don't you get
>> certified, Bob?"
>>
>> I'll put my judging consistency and skill up against anyone's..... but 
>> not
>> if it's gonna be thrown out later.  As difficult as it is to train, and
> then
>> *recruit* judges at big events, WHY would anyone want to toss their
> efforts
>> in the trash????   Why bother to play at all, if there is no more value
>> placed on someone's best effort than that?
>>
>> Bob Pastorello
>> www.rcaerobats.net
>> rcaerobob at cox.net
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:16 PM
>> Subject: RE: Scoring formula
>>
>>
>> I have to agree with Derek on this one, 100%.
>>
>> The conventional thought on "throwing out Highs and lows" is that you'll
>> get rid of the spurious ZERO from some Snap-roll nazi  along with the
>> gift "10" that the pilot's buddy awarded him.   That could be true.
>>
>> But what really happens...the down side... Is that the toughest judge on
>> the panel...get's EVERY SCORE THROWN OUT...   He might as well pack up
>> and go home.   Same is true for the "easy" judge.  Forget about the fact
>> that they're consistent...  Tossing Highs and Low's doesn't really care.
>> In fact...the more consistently "tough" they are...the more likely that
>> they wasted their time.
>>
>> TBL on the other hand looks at judges across the entire pool of flyers..
>> If a judge is consistently tough...fine.  But if he's tough on 8
>> pilots...and easy on 2...it's going to catch it.  Same goes for the easy
>> judge that's suddenly tough.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
>> On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:30 PM
>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>> Subject: RE: Scoring formula
>>
>> There is a big difference between TBLP and TBL.  TBL does not change
>> individual maneuver scores at all - it may change the overall round
>> score
>> for a judge based on how that judge has scored other pilots and relative
>> to
>> that judges' scores compared to the other judges.
>>
>> I have given explanations of what TBL is several times - certain people
>> are
>> set in their ways and will not open up their minds to understanding
>> statistical methods.  I can equate TBL vs high-low throw out to people's
>> understanding of the impact on turnaround in pattern.
>>
>> The problem with high-low discard is that you are eliminating the work
>> of
>> 40% of your judges scores if 5 judges are used.  Is that fair to the
>> judges
>> and pilots?  TBL changes that by keeping about 90% of all judges scores.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Grow Pattern
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 6:13 PM
>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>> Subject: Re: Scoring formula
>>
>> Check this out I was researching TBL formulae and I ran across this. The
>> parallelisms of the full-size aerobatic world to our world are pretty
>> scary.
>>
>> _ Eric
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