[SPAM] Re: ADV Proposal Questions Part #2

[Steven Maxwell]

 I for one would like to thank Troy for his hard work putting the sequences together, not an easy task at all, I talked to Troy at the Nat's for some time and feel he has done an exceptional job, get 10 people in a room and see how many agree on anything could be why our forefathers picked 12 as jury.
 Steve Maxwell


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Troy A. Newman 
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: 7/27/2005 10:19:37 PM 
Subject: [SPAM] Re: ADV Proposal Questions Part #2


Part #2 Please send your comments after completely looking over the following below.

OK Now how did the sequences come out:

Option A: KF of 49 contains 1 K5 figure. Its at the open so the pilot is truly setup for it.

1. Slow roll has it
2. 4pt roll has it
3. Negative G elements or inverted exits...No inverted exits...but the Figure M has a huge inverted pushing element that requires the model to negative loop at center and is a very complex figure for any sequence even FAI level., Bunt 1/2 roll out again negative push is the major element and the roll from inverted is a skill building element also. Humpty pull-push 1/2 roll down similar negative G element in it at the top. 1/2 square 2/4pt up is a push to level at the top again a negative push to exit a figure. Along with the 1/2 square 1/2 roll up. 2 outside loops from the top, and the square loop with 1/2's legs 1 and 3 give equal exposure to positive and negative G elements. So even though there is not an inverted exit there are many pushes in common figures that build the skills of pushing out of or within a figure that just don't require a level inverted flight between figures. In fact this sequence is a little heavier than we planned on negative G elements but it is short on negative exits...Its always a trade off and we tried to give the best figures to teach the skills and present a common element to the judges for what they have seen before and reduce the introduction of gotcha figures where the pilot made a bad choice and is screwed or the judge is trying to figure out is he suppose to be inverted or upright.
4. Min of 1 snap max of 2 This has 2 just like the current Advanced
5. Figure 8 in this one its missing instead a complex figure M is taking its place
6. 2 cross box elements 2 top hat with 1/4 and humpty with options
7. One figure that requires reverse rolling or thinking about roll directions  Figure M has this also...the middle of all M's must be inverted thru center.
8. 2 stall turns  We have 3 two of them are in the figure M and 1 is a stall turn with 1/2's


So you see this sequence does a pretty good job of filling the criteria we setup. There are some things that it may be missing but we feel it made up for many of them in other ways. Also note that a figure M does a bunch of teach of the skills...stall turns, inverted push thru the middle, centering of the figure, centering of 4 different roll elements, radii concerns on positive and negative corners, and roll direction thinking and looks. I have never felt the Figure M is a laughing and weak figure to perform there are just too many elements including matching positive and negative corners as well as all the other stuff above. This is a make or break figure in any sequence.

Now Option B:  KF of 48 missing the K5 in this one though and also missing in the current ADV.

1. Slow roll got it
2. 4pt roll got it
3. Inverted elements  outside 6 sided from the top. That is 6 outside corners to a defined 60 degree angle from the last line. This is a good workout on pushing to a line. Triangle loop full roll on top gives an inverted to inverted roll element, similar to an inverted exit and similar to the double I in the current sequence with a full roll on the bottom...this one is just up and the top of the box. Bunt 1/2 roll out again rolling from inverted this time at the bottom of the box. Then the 1/2 squares with 1/2 roll up and 2/4pt up give push tops for negative G corners to the exit...This sequence is a little lighter on the negative G elements but they  are not missing. 
4. Min of 1 and max of 2 Snaps again two same as the current sequence
5. At Least 1 Figure 8 vertical-horizontal or Cuban Yes has a Reverse Cuban 8 with 1/2 rolls
6. At Least 2 cross box elements Yes humpty with options and a top hat with 1/4's
7. 1 figure that require reverse rolling or thinking about roll directions The opening Stall turn has 3/4 rolls up and down, so the rolls would be reversed and requires thinking about roll direction.
8. At Least 2 stall turns Yes 2 stall turns One Higher KF in the center and one turnaround.


Results the Option B is a little lighter in terms of inverted pushes but its still got 3-4 of them that are placed in a skill building sequence.


The comment was brought about the Diamond 8 in the Masters sequence of today that the new advanced doesn't address this skill and we feel it does. The figure M, the six sided outside loop the Pull-push humpty the bunts and the inverted rolling elements like the triangle with full roll and the bunts address the skills needed for this figure. Also the Diamond or square on corner  and triangle address the 45 degree lines does this well too. And then the square with 1/2 rolls on legs 1 and 3 also addresses this skill group of mixed corners positive and negative with the same figure.


I know that some of you may not disagree with this logic above and that's OK...we can't please everyone. If you are not happy with the options Vote NO change.  I'm not here to argue the points. Many will disagree with the results. These results are in a  survey and for that reason you have the right to vote either way. You also have the right to submit something you feel is better. The grouped worked hard on the results and to try and fill all of the elements in the design criteria some may argue on how we did that. I commend each member of the group on the effort and the result they gave. Obviously some give more than others but we are standing behind the work as a group. I would be happy to address any other sequence questions.

Thanks for the your time
Troy Newman
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