Judge Feedback

[Ken Thompson III]

Good stuff, Keith!!

Ken Thompson
D4 Sportsman, again
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Keith Black 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:24 PM
  Subject: Re: Judge Feedback


  Earl, I think you have some good points. But I want to point out two issues relating to your comments.

  1. The marks on the score sheet that Lance suggested were to facilitate evaluation *after* the round, not during the round.

  2. Your point about the coach working with the pilot at the practice fields has great merits, but it doesn't take into account that not everyone has experienced pattern fliers to practice with, and even those that do fly with other pattern fliers can benefit from input from more experienced pilots at contests.

  Since you're an FAI pilot and you work with guys at your field you're coming from the viewpoint that sportsman pilots can get expert advice if they look for it at practice. But how are those that don't have top (or any) pattern pilots at their home field ever supposed to improve if they don't get feedback at contests?

  If your answer is "their caller", then I'd point out that most lower level fliers aren't fortunate enough to have top level pilots call for them if they don't fly with them at practice. I've seen many less experienced pilots calling for each other. Also, the top fliers are often judging. Think about it this way, how many sportsman or intermediate pilots, that aren't in your club, do you call for at contests, and how much feedback do you give them? If these guys don't get feedback from someone how will they ever improve?

  I personally very much appreciate input from judges on things they noticed me doing wrong. Especially when it's something I'm doing wrong again and again and don't realize. 

  Keith Black

  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Earl Haury 
    To: Discussion List, NSRCA 
    Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:15 AM
    Subject: Judge Feedback


    Here are some considerations regarding judges providing feedback to competitors the we should address. 

    The key word is "competitors". Judges score individuals performances in competitions that are held to ascertain the relative skills of competitors to perform according to stated rules and descriptions. Being a competition - one should assume that flyers present their patterns to the unbiased judge sets and the let scores describe the ranking. 

    The presumption is that the competitors arrive prepared to compete. Those who have worked the hardest on this preparation will (and should) generally excel. A pattern contest isn't intended to be a training ground, but a review of achievement and peer comparison. Judges who provide feedback have good intentions, but there are questions that deserve attention. Isn't the job of the judge to provide the correct score for each maneuver? Is it appropriate for the judge to (mis)direct attention to make notations for post flight feedback? Will the feedback be consistent to all competitors, or "buddy biased"? Is it fair to my competition for judges to point out my errors so that I can correct them in subsequent flights? If judges with largely different scores on a specific maneuver offer feedback and disagree - then what? In the latter, will this disagreement influence a judge to change standards mid-round? What if some wish to discuss feedback, or argue with it, at the expense of  delaying the next flight?  What if this agitates the judges and you're next up? 

    I realize that the gist of the feedback issue is to benefit the newbie, but the above points apply here also. We seem to accept that anyone, without practice or proper equipment or preparation (reading the rules), should be able to fly successfully in some form of "beginner" class. This doesn't happen - and we've fiddled with the rules of the beginner class for years to little avail. Unfortunately, the judges feedback at a contest isn't going to help the unprepared. What will help is mentoring - but not from the judges chair! 

    The best place to help the newbie is at the practice field where everything can be addressed. Coach these folks, provide feedback and assistance. Judge flights, take notes, and critique. Help trim their airplane, be supportive with equipment maintenance, etc. Get them prepared for those first contests, call for them, critique their flights, evaluate their scores, help them in every way as a coach and friend, and pattern will gain in numbers. Just don't do this from the judges chair - judging is the only job then. 

    Earl

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20050112/5464a6ae/attachment.html