Class Structure
Jeff Hughes
jeffghughes at comcast.net
Mon Jan 10 17:34:31 AKST 2005
Maybe Sportsman ought to be a 1 full year maximum, then automatic move up to intermediate.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Lockhart
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Class Structure
Ken,
I understand your point and am not specifically looking to take away the "carrot". A repeated theme I've heard from potential pattern newbies is about intimidation - they won't go to a contest because they don't have a "pattern" plane and don't want to spend the $$$ on a pattern plane to find out if they like the event. They also don't want to go to a contest and fly in the entry level class (currently called Sportsman) and find they are competing with someone who not only has a pattern plane but has been flying in the class for 3 year. Real "pattern" planes and long term pilots in the Sportsman class are both intimidating to a significant number of potential pattern newbies. And whether or not the real "pattern" plane is really of benefit to a new pattern pilot in Sportsman - for some it is (they can handle the plane and are not afraid of it), and for others it is probably a detriment (they are scared of the plane and likely way behind it) - but that is secondary to bigger issue that the perception is that the pattern plane is needed and this is reinforced when the guys winning the entry level class are flying "pattern" planes.
I certainly don't want to see someone as yourself drop out if the District Championship were removed, but, if it were removed, I think some of the currently intimidated pilots would try pattern and maybe stay around. No way to know for certain. I would certainly welcome any additional thoughts you have.
Regards,
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Thompson III
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Class Structure
Thanks Ed,
And for those who are really paying attention, I meant
"receive a plaque" not "achieve a plaque". <oops>
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Miller
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: Class Structure
I have to agree, the "golden carrot" is a good thing. I see no reason why there shouldn't be district Sportsman champions. If we want to attract and retain, there should be a reward.
Ed M.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Thompson III
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Class Structure
Dave,
As a pattern newbie, I respectfully disagree with one part of your statement. A lot of newbies, including myself, have only been in this hobby a relatively short period of time. In my few contests that I was able to attend, last year, I got beat continuously. In my quest to become a better pilot, that championship plaque will always be in my sights. That Sportsman championship would be a goal of most entry level pattern pilots, possibly obtainable in a couple of short years.
When that goal is achieved, the next goal is the Intermediate championship, in that district, which will be my goal before I am forced to move up on points.
That progression is my personal goal, and I believe the goal of many of my entry level peers.
And before anyone asks, "Are you in this only for the wood?", I'm in this to become a better pilot. However the wood is a nice accompaniment, this year I would like to achieve a plaque, not because there were only 3 Sportsman pilots, but because I actually flew better than a few. <VBG>
Ken Thompson
NSRCA 3646
D4 Sportsman, again
----- Original Message -----
From: David Lockhart
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: Class Structure
I don't think the entry level class should crown a year end District Championship - anyone who wants to seriously campaign in pattern is already hooked, and should move up to the next level - keep a true pattern newbie from having to compete with some who is already committed to pattern. I don't see the entry level class being too easy as a problem - someone can always choose to start in a higher class.
Regards,
Dave Lockhart
DaveL322 at comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Verne Koester
To: NSRCA
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 6:58 PM
Subject: Class Structure
Georgie,
Here's a novel idea. Leave Intermediate alone and take the snaps out of
Advanced. A pilot coming out of Intermediate into Advanced already has to
learn Slow Rolls, 4 Point Rolls, and a longer schedule with more crosswind
exposure maneuvers which is plenty.
The step from Advanced to Masters is minimal at best. The step from
Intermediate to Advanced is monumental. The end result is a bunch of pilots
in Intermediate that are getting bored with their schedule but still not
ready for Advanced so they want to add snaps to it. Only problem is that
someone coming out of Sportsman will likely be scared away if Intermediate
is made any tougher.
It's no surprise to me that the number of Masters pilots at any given
contest are far greater than the classes that precede it. Most of us who are
there came up through a balanced system of steps. We're all out of whack
right now. Unfortunately, I seem to be one of only a handful of Masters and
higher pilots that still remembers how hard it was to learn slow and 4 point
rolls which gets introduced at the Advanced level. Take the snaps and spins
out of Advanced and introduce them at the Masters level, put some box exits
back where they need to be, and you'll have a logical, balanced, and
transitional set of schedules that takes a pilot from Sportsman to however
high he or she wants to go.
Verne Koester
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Kennie" <geobet at gis.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again
and
> <<I'm not flying masters, I'm flying advanced, the reason is
> Masters is
> more difficult than I think I can reasonably fly at this time, so
> I'll work my way up. >>
>
> I respectfully disagree with your assessment of schedule difficulty.
> I get the feeling that you haven't taken the time to sit down and
> really study the current Master's sequence. I commend your attitude
> of working your way up!!!IMHO, I find the current Master's much less
> threatening than the Advanced sequence.
>
> Somebody mentioned "going to contests without practicing", and
> indeed I can remember, back in the 60's going to a contest myself
> having never performed the required routine and doing quite well at
> the time.However those were significantly different times and I
> myself would not desire to return to the mindset of that period.It
> was called a "Pattern Contest" and the attendance was probably a
> couple of hundred guys, but the mindset was more like a current day
> "Fun- Fly". Nobody really took it all that seriously. Somewhere
> along the line, the few individuals that did have a more serious
> approach organized and brought a more serious aspect to the sport
> realizing that the basis for guys going out and flying a routine
> that was in fact JUDGED meant that the concept must
> be"COMPETITION". I think that this is probably the reason you still
> find the most heavily attended events to be "Fun-Fly's". When it
> gets too serious there are a lot of guys that start to feel
> threatened regarding their status within the group structure and
> when the pressure becomes, in their estimation, greater than feels
> comfortable to them, they gravitate to a different venue that
> restores the level of comfort they deem appropriate.
> The same thing seems to happen, in my judgement, with schedule
> complexity.Some of us realize that if the schedules become more and
> more complex, at some point the difficulty factor will become
> significant enough to threaten our currently hard won achievement
> status, and indeed this is true.The decision that probably needs to
> be reasoned through is,in light of this truth, should the pursuit of
> excellence be sacrificed to satisfy the inadequacies of those of us
> who are clammoring to maintain their elevation?
> I consider myself a part of this equation and recognize my own
> inadequacies, however I also realize that this same pursuit of
> excellence will not be enhanced by any concession to tilt the
> playing field in my favor. Noone will be served by that tack. Least
> of all ME! My flying prowess ranks somewhere between Sportsman and
> Intermediate(my assessment), and though I find a couple of the FAI
> maneuvers really tough to execute in a graceful manner, I still feel
> that there is no maneuver that I could not learn to do and given
> another 50 years of practice I might even be in a position to
> challenge Jason.
> It's about STRIVING guys. That's what COMPETITION is! And it's
> purpose is to determine the most skilled individual, with the rest
> of us rated in descending order beneath the rating of the BEST! So,
> as you can see, I'm not in favor of wussing out to make things
> easier for anybody who finds their position at the pinnacle
> precarious(and that includes ME).
> Now, all that being said, I do feel that we may have a void at the
> bottom and should probably go back again and reconsider a pre-novice
> class for the guy who has only been involved in the sport for 2
> weeks and has never practiced flying a straight line.This shouldn't
> take much additional time as the number of guys showing up to
> participate in this class will indeed be very few (which begs the
> question, how far do we have to concede in order to grow the
> ranks?).
> The Sportsman sequence I proposed a couple of days ago DOES appear
> to be too difficult for some of the respondants(but not all) and
> maybe the old Novice schedule should be made available for anybody
> showing up to try (as a pre-novice event).I also think that the
> Intermediate should introduce it's participant to the 45 downline
> snap or at least a center snap on a horizontal baseline as
> preparation for Advanced.
> Only a bunch of opinions, guys! Don't mean I'm right!
> G.
>
>
>
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