[SPAM] Re: Class Structure

[DaveL322 at comcast.net]

Ok, I'll bite.

What is embarrassing?  A schedule with a straight line?  Or not being able to fly a straight line?

Maybe some have forgotten how challenging it is to do Straight Flight Out, 1/2 Reverse Cuban Eight, and Straight Flight Back (with the straight flights being superimposed)?  Anyone who masters that sequence is much better prepared to start flying more advanced manuevers.

I watch guys struggle through a sequence, and declare themselves ready to move up just at the point at which they are no longer threatening the peanut gallery.  What happened to the precision?  I don't remember giving too many scores above 8 the last few years when I've judged Sportsman and Intermediate.  Seems to me there is plenty of challenge in the Sportsman and Intermediate classes.

BTW - I spent quite a bit of time playing Devils Advocate with Verne for some patterns he has developed.  Froze my butt off in February in NJ flying a Tiger 2 through the draft sequences while my Dad did the same (with I think a H9 Cap).  He has my vote anyday to design sequences - if he could ever be coaxed into it again - it is a ton of work when properly done.

Regards,

Dave Lockhart
DaveL322 at comcast.net


-------------- Original message -------------- 
Verne, 
I certainly like a lot of what you propose. However, I also feel that there is probably no simple solution to the scheduling problem. Keith raises some points that I feel are highly constructive (seems like he's always doing that). Saving the snaps for Master's is probably not a bad idea, but there appears to be an overall dumbing down of all the sequences to the detriment of our intended purpose. 
I don't know if "growing the sport" in pattern is an attainable goal, at least not everywhere and at the same time. 
If you design a sequence for Sportsman that requires a rookie to take-off, fly one pass of straight flight out and straight flight back and do one flat horizontal eight at center and land, and that's it, how many guys do you think you will get to show up???  We're dealing with individuals who must possess a certain personality type (high ego, high self-confidence) and the majority of the "Sport Flyer" contingent consists of guys who are severly reluctant to embarass themselves.They may show up to watch other guys embarass themselves, but to make themselves vulnerable is a definite no-no. 
As Keith points out, when sequences are too easily accomplished it becomes a look-alike affair with the outcome becoming difficult to judge with any degree of distinction. I think each sequence requires at least one maneuver that is significant in it's performance requirement in order to judge and establish a skill differential. 
I really appreciate your input and maybe something like you propose needs to be tried to see if it does indeed work. I'm certainly not against it, but I would probably be an observer with some degree of guarded skepticism. However in the event that it was successful, I would embrace it enthusiastically. All ideas are good and have their own merit! 
Georgie 
Verne Koester wrote: 
  Georgie, 
Here's a novel idea. Leave Intermediate alone and take the snaps out of 
Advanced. A pilot coming out of Intermediate into Advanced already has to 
learn Slow Rolls, 4 Point Rolls, and a longer schedule with more crosswind 
exposure maneuvers which is plenty. 
The step from Advanced to Masters is minimal at best. The step from 
Intermediate to Advanced is monumental. The end result is a bunch of pilots 
in Intermediate that are getting bored with their schedule but still not 
ready for Advanced so they want to add snaps to it. Only problem is that 
someone coming out of Sportsman will likely be scared away if Intermediate 
is made any tougher. 
It's no surprise to me that the number of Masters pilots at any given 
contest are far greater than the classes that precede it. Most of us who are 
there came up through a balanced system of steps. We're all out of whack 
right now. Unfortunately, I seem to be one of only a handful of Masters and 
higher pilots that still remembers how hard it was to learn slow and 4 point 
rolls which gets introduced at the Advanced level. Take the snaps and spins 
out of Advanced and introduce them at the Masters level, put some box exits 
back where they need to be, and you'll have a logical, balanced, and 
transitional  set of schedules that takes a pilot from Sportsman to however 
high he or she wants to go. 
Verne Koester 
  
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Kennie" <geobet at gis.net> 
To: <discussion at nsrca.org> 
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 2:28 PM 
Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again 
and 
  
> <<I'm not flying masters, I'm flying advanced, the reason is 
> Masters is 
> more difficult than I think I can reasonably fly at this time, so 
> I'll work my way up. >> 
> 
> I respectfully disagree with your assessment of schedule difficulty. 
> I get the feeling that you haven't taken the time to sit down and 
> really study the current Master's sequence. I commend your attitude 
> of working your way up!!!IMHO, I find the current Master's much less 
> threatening than the Advanced sequence. 
> 
> Somebody mentioned "going to contests without practicing", and 
> indeed I can remember, back in the 60's going to a contest myself 
> having never performed the required routine and doing quite well at 
> the time.However those were significantly different times and I 
> myself would not desire to return to the mindset of that period.It 
> was called a "Pattern Contest" and the attendance was probably a 
> couple of hundred guys, but the mindset was more like a current day 
> "Fun- Fly". Nobody really took it all that seriously. Somewhere 
> along the line, the few individuals that did have a more serious 
> approach organized and brought a more serious aspect to the sport 
> realizing that the basis for guys going out and flying a routine 
> that was in fact JUDGED meant that the concept must 
> be"COMPETITION".  I think that this is probably the reason you still 
> find the most heavily attended events to be "Fun-Fly's". When it 
> gets too serious there are a lot of guys that start to feel 
> threatened regarding their status within the group structure and 
> when the pressure becomes, in their estimation, greater than feels 
> comfortable to them, they gravitate to a different venue that 
> restores the level of comfort they deem appropriate. 
> The same thing seems to happen, in my judgement, with  schedule 
> complexity.Some of us realize that if the schedules become more and 
> more complex, at some point the difficulty factor will become 
> significant enough to threaten our currently hard won achievement 
> status, and indeed this is true.The decision that probably needs to 
> be reasoned through is,in light of this truth, should the pursuit of 
> excellence be sacrificed to satisfy the inadequacies of those of us 
> who are clammoring to maintain their elevation? 
> I consider myself a part of this equation and recognize my own 
> inadequacies, however I  also realize that this same pursuit of 
> excellence will not be enhanced by any concession to tilt the 
> playing field in my favor. Noone will be served by that tack. Least 
> of all ME! My flying prowess ranks somewhere between Sportsman and 
> Intermediate(my assessment), and though I find a couple of the FAI 
> maneuvers really tough to execute in a graceful manner, I still feel 
> that there is no maneuver that I could not learn to do and given 
> another 50 years of practice I might even be in a position to 
> challenge Jason. 
> It's about STRIVING guys. That's what COMPETITION is! And it's 
> purpose is to determine the most skilled individual, with the rest 
> of us rated in descending order beneath the rating of the BEST! So, 
> as you can see, I'm not in favor of wussing out to make things 
> easier for anybody who finds their position at the pinnacle 
> precarious(and that includes ME). 
> Now, all that being said, I do feel that we may have a void at the 
> bottom and should probably go back again and reconsider a pre-novice 
> class for the guy who has only been involved in the sport for 2 
> weeks and has never practiced flying a straight line.This shouldn't 
> take much additional time as the number of guys showing up to 
> participate in this class will indeed be very few (which begs the 
> question, how far do we have to concede in order to grow the 
> ranks?). 
> The Sportsman sequence I proposed a couple of days ago DOES appear 
> to be too difficult for some of the respondants(but not all) and 
> maybe the old Novice schedule should be made available for anybody 
> showing up to try (as a pre-novice event).I also think that the 
> Intermediate should introduce it's participant to the 45 downline 
> snap or at least a center snap on a horizontal baseline as 
> preparation for Advanced. 
> Only a bunch of opinions, guys! Don't mean I'm right! 
> G. 
> 
> 
> 
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