adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again
and
RC Steve Sterling
rcsteve at tcrcm.org
Sat Jan 8 20:28:40 AKST 2005
I have to agree with John here. I'm concerned that we keep making the
entry-level class too hard for the real newbie that we are trying to hook.
I flew my first contest 7 months after solo. This was back in about 1997 or
so. The individual manuevers were no easier, but you got to go out of the
box pretty frequently and get lined back up. For someone that isn't that
skilled (people we need to bring into the entry ranks to fill the pipe),
after a couple maneuvers, they get behind the airplane and are going into
the next maneuver in trouble. Leaving the box gave us the opportunity to
calm down and get straightened out.
If your skills were better than that, start in Intermediate. Same message
today to those that think Sportsman is too easy. It should be really easy!
Sportsman should be constructed so that regular club sport flyers can come
taste pattern with little or no practice when the local club holds a meet
with their 4 star 40's and Tiger 60's.
This year, I tried to bring a couple of our yearling's into our local
contest. They just couldn't handle the continuity of it all, and both gave
up. Oh we could be elitist and say they should have practiced more and got
better airplanes, but is that really going to seed the pipe?
Maybe what we need is another (non-rated?) entry class? Fun-pattern class
or something?
-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On
Behalf Of John Pavlick
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 10:48 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: RE: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and
again and
Yeah, I agree. It's harder than it looks but it teaches the basics of all
the higher level maneuvers without overwhelming a newbie. It is too short.
The biggest problem I had last year (other than flying a 40 size plane and
learning how to handle crosswind) is that there is no "practice" time
available. I know it's probably unnecessary for the higher classes and
definitely impractical due to time constraints, but maybe for Sportsman what
would be cool is to fly two sequences per round (one take off and landing)
and maybe just keep the score for the best one. This could be the CD's
option - no rule changes needed because it's already addressed in the
current rules (sort of). It might help a lot of guys improve a lot quicker -
I know it would have helped me.
As far as the maneuvers go - the hardest ones are the stall turn, 2 loops
and the 2 point roll. If you want to make it "harder" encourage guys to use
top rudder in the 2 point roll and even the full roll (slow it down).
Although not necessary (unlike elevator control in the 3 roll sequence), it
is a skill builder (or airplane destroyer) and it will add interest for
someone who has mastered the basics. The 2 loops are good because if there's
crosswind, you'll learn how to deal with it there. The stall turn has enough
elements to make it challenging.
The problems with the Humpty with 1/2 roll up (or anything with 1/2 roll
up) are:
1. A slightly underpowered plane (i.e. entry level Sportsman) will have
problems making it to the top so the pull will be messy and screw up the
down line (believe me).
2. An improperly trimmed airplane that's dragging a wing (aileron diff.)
will screw up the up line.
The non rolling triangle loop might work, and it's good because of the
long inverted section at the top of the box (i.e. learn some rudder
technique) BUT an underpowered plane may have problems turning the first
corner at the top forcing an inverted line correction.
I'm working with a few people now who will be flying Sportsman this
season if all goes well. The first thing I had them do was fly to the ends
of the box and do 1/2 cuban turn arounds. I told them to practice this until
they could hold a straight and level flight path between. THAT was harder
than it looks for some of them, especially when there was a crosswind.
Maybe you guys don't realize just how skilled you are (Advanced, Masters,
FAI). Please take it easy on us! It takes a while to build the skills
necessary to achieve that level of competency. I just transitioned from
Sportsman to Intermediate and it felt about right. It's quite a bit harder,
but not overwhelming. I'll struggle for a while, but I'll catch up
eventually. Just in time to get pushed into Advanced...
John Pavlick
http://www.idseng.com
-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On
Behalf Of Keith Black
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:59 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and
again and
Being not too far removed from Sportsman myself I have to agree that the
sportsman pattern is about right in difficulty, just a little short unless
it's flown twice. Without flying it twice the sportsman guys really get the
short end of the stick. If you make it any more difficult then it will be
too hard for the newbie. Even with the current sportsman pattern when I
began I sometimes REALLY needed the box exits, especially after the two
loops. And as far as two rolls go, that's WAY too difficult for sportsman.
That maneuver scared the bejeepers out of for the longest time in
Intermediate (especially when I lost track of my rolls, with the sun in my
face, over the trees in Temple!).
One good thing about the current sportsman pattern is it's easier to get
new guys to consider trying the pattern when they see how "simple" it is. Of
course, they quickly find out that even though the maneuvers are simple it's
not at all easy for the uninitiated pattern flyer to keep the plane on track
through the maneuvers. Then they ALL say the same thing... "WOW! That's
harder than it looks!".
I think the Sportsman pattern is about right, just a little short.
Keith Black
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Pappas
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and
again and
Hey George,
When the wind blows, even a little bit, the present Sportsman schedule
overtaxes both the concentration and skill of the entry level pilot.
A certain amount of this is good, 'cause all real learning is painful,
but this is a trap that the event has fallen into at least four times in my
recollection.
We keep changing schedules to maintain interest, and that's good.
When we revise the schedules, we keep adding interest: that sounds
good, but what we really almost always ended up doing was adding a tiny bit
of complexity until ...
We have to add a new class to the all-important bottom of the pyramid.
Want to know how many times it's happened? Once it was called Novice,
then we called it Pre-Novice, then the schedules all changed,
and we called it Novice again, then we changed the name to Sportsman,
and added Turnaround.
I like the schedule Don proposes, but I'd rather have the Sportsmen
fly two short schedules with a "holy cow!, let me get back from the next
county." break between the schedules.
Some Sportsmen go without a breath for a whole schedule. Okay that's a
slight exageration.
I have used the out-of-box time between those two schedules to coach,
calm, and teach the incoming pilots. It's terribly useful.
Oh yes, 3 rolls is infinitely more useful for teaching "elevator
timing" than 2. You can fake it for 2, but the 3rd one requires that the
plane be under control after 2.
Hey Ron van Putte ... you out there?
Tell the man about the time the Earth shook in Lake Charles!
Regards,
Dean Pappas
Sr. Design Engineer
Kodeos Communications
111 Corporate Blvd.
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
(908) 222-7817 phone
(908) 222-2392 fax
d.pappas at kodeos.com
-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of George Kennie
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 2:37 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Annex proposal -
development
I too find Don Ramsey's sequence very stimulating.
Reminds me that I have always felt that the poor guys in Sportsman
sometimes appear to be getting the short end of the stick regarding the
schedule.Many contests that I have attended have them flying the sequence
twice because the routine is so very short. I would like to see their
schedule slightly modified to give them a little longer sequence and a
little additional stimulation.
I would propose something like the following.
1.T.O.
U
2.Free Pass.
D
3.Straight Flight Out. C
U
4.Procedure Turn. T
5.Straight Flight Back. C
D
6.1/2 Reverse Cuban Eight T
7.Immelman Turn. C
U
8.Split S. T
9.2 Loops. C
U
10.Exit The Box.
U
11.Enter The Box.
D
12.Non-Rolling Triangular Loop C
U
13.Humpty Bump 1/2 roll up T
14.One 2-Point Roll C
D
15.1/2 Cuban Eight. T
16.Non-Rolling Cobra. C
U
17.Stall Turn. T
18.2 Rolls. C
D
19.Exit The Box.
20.Landing. C
U
C= Center,T=Turnaround, U= Upwind, D=Downwind.
My rationale is that this is the point that we need to encourage
this
class of fliers to work on their down elevator timing by introducing
2 rolls.This shouldn't be too much for them to handle as they are
currently doing a 2 point roll. Also the 2 loops will sharpen their
precision by making them work harder at presentation placement.
The Procedure Turn will teach them something that will be required,
and the Humpty should present no major problems as they are already
doing a 1/2 Reverse Cuban.They should be learning the Stall Turn and
the Triangular Loop will further strengthen their centering
skills.There are
seven maneuvers before taking a breather and seven more to complete
the sequence.
Now these fellows can fly ONE sequence like the rest of us and the
time required should be no longer than the time required to fly a
double
schedule.
Sportsman pilots out there, let me know what you think.
Georgie
P.S.I wonder if there are any Sportsman guys monitoring this list??
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