adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again and

George Kennie geobet at gis.net
Sat Jan 8 10:51:30 AKST 2005


Worthy perceptions, John.  Thanks!
G.

John Pavlick wrote:

>   Yeah, I agree. It's harder than it looks but it teaches the
> basics of all the higher level maneuvers without overwhelming a
> newbie. It is too short. The biggest problem I had last year
> (other than flying a 40 size plane and learning how to handle
> crosswind) is that there is no "practice" time available. I know
> it's probably unnecessary for the higher classes and definitely
> impractical due to time constraints, but maybe for Sportsman what
> would be cool is to fly two sequences per round (one take off and
> landing) and maybe just keep the score for the best one. This
> could be the CD's option - no rule changes needed because it's
> already addressed in the current rules (sort of). It might help a
> lot of guys improve a lot quicker - I know it would have helped
> me. As far as the maneuvers go - the hardest ones are the stall
> turn, 2 loops and the 2 point roll. If you want to make it
> "harder" encourage guys to use top rudder in the 2 point roll and
> even the full roll (slow it down). Although not necessary (unlike
> elevator control in the 3 roll sequence), it is a skill builder
> (or airplane destroyer) and it will add interest for someone who
> has mastered the basics. The 2 loops are good because if there's
> crosswind, you'll learn how to deal with it there. The stall turn
> has enough elements to make it challenging. The problems with the
> Humpty with 1/2 roll up (or anything with 1/2 roll up) are: 1. A
> slightly underpowered plane (i.e. entry level Sportsman) will have
> problems making it to the top so the pull will be messy and screw
> up the down line (believe me).2. An improperly trimmed airplane
> that's dragging a wing (aileron diff.) will screw up the up
> line.The non rolling triangle loop might work, and it's good
> because of the long inverted section at the top of the box (i.e.
> learn some rudder technique) BUT an underpowered plane may have
> problems turning the first corner at the top forcing an inverted
> line correction. I'm working with a few people now who will be
> flying Sportsman this season if all goes well. The first thing I
> had them do was fly to the ends of the box and do 1/2 cuban turn
> arounds. I told them to practice this until they could hold a
> straight and level flight path between. THAT was harder than it
> looks for some of them, especially when there was a
> crosswind. Maybe you guys don't realize just how skilled you are
> (Advanced, Masters, FAI). Please take it easy on us! It takes a
> while to build the skills necessary to achieve that level of
> competency. I just transitioned from Sportsman to Intermediate and
> it felt about right. It's quite a bit harder, but not
> overwhelming. I'll struggle for a while, but I'll catch up
> eventually. Just in time to get pushed into Advanced...
>
> John Pavlick
> http://www.idseng.com
>
>   -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Keith Black
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:59 AM
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again
> and again and
>
>      Being not too far removed from Sportsman myself I have
>      to agree that the sportsman pattern is about right in
>      difficulty, just a little short unless it's flown twice.
>      Without flying it twice the sportsman guys really get
>      the short end of the stick. If you make it any more
>      difficult then it will be too hard for the newbie. Even
>      with the current sportsman pattern when I began I
>      sometimes REALLY needed the box exits, especially after
>      the two loops. And as far as two rolls go, that's WAY
>      too difficult for sportsman. That maneuver scared the
>      bejeepers out of for the longest time in Intermediate
>      (especially when I lost track of my rolls, with the sun
>      in my face, over the trees in Temple!). One good thing
>      about the current sportsman pattern is it's easier to
>      get new guys to consider trying the pattern when they
>      see how "simple" it is. Of course, they quickly find out
>      that even though the maneuvers are simple it's not at
>      all easy for the uninitiated pattern flyer to keep the
>      plane on track through the maneuvers. Then they ALL say
>      the same thing... "WOW! That's harder than it looks!". I
>      think the Sportsman pattern is about right, just a
>      little short. Keith Black
>
>           ----- Original Message -----
>           From: Dean Pappas
>           To: discussion at nsrca.org
>           Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 2:57 PM
>           Subject: RE: adding interest and complexity to
>           Sportsman ... again and again and
>            Hey George,When the wind blows, even a little
>           bit, the present Sportsman schedule overtaxes
>           both the concentration and skill of the entry
>           level pilot.A certain amount of this is good,
>           'cause all real learning is painful, but this
>           is a trap that the event has fallen into at
>           least four times in my recollection.We keep
>           changing schedules to maintain interest, and
>           that's good.When we revise the schedules, we
>           keep adding interest: that sounds good, but
>           what we really almost always ended up doing
>           was adding a tiny bit of complexity until
>           ...We have to add a new class to the
>           all-important bottom of the pyramid.Want to
>           know how many times it's happened? Once it was
>           called Novice, then we called it Pre-Novice,
>           then the schedules all changed,and we called
>           it Novice again, then we changed the name to
>           Sportsman, and added Turnaround.I like the
>           schedule Don proposes, but I'd rather have the
>           Sportsmen fly two short schedules with a "holy
>           cow!, let me get back from the next county."
>           break between the schedules.Some Sportsmen go
>           without a breath for a whole schedule. Okay
>           that's a slight exageration.I have used the
>           out-of-box time between those two schedules to
>           coach, calm, and teach the incoming pilots.
>           It's terribly useful.Oh yes, 3 rolls is
>           infinitely more useful for teaching "elevator
>           timing" than 2.  You can fake it for 2, but
>           the 3rd one requires that the plane be under
>           control after 2.Hey Ron van Putte ... you out
>           there?Tell the man about the time the Earth
>           shook in Lake Charles!Regards,Dean Pappas
>           Sr. Design Engineer
>           Kodeos Communications
>           111 Corporate Blvd.
>           South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
>           (908) 222-7817 phone
>           (908) 222-2392 fax
>           d.pappas at kodeos.com
>
>                -----Original Message-----
>                From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
>                [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On
>                Behalf Of George Kennie
>                Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005
>                2:37 PM
>                To: discussion at nsrca.org
>                Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re:
>                [SPAM] Re: Annex proposal -
>                development
>                I too find Don Ramsey's sequence
>                very stimulating.
>                Reminds me that I have always felt
>                that the poor guys in Sportsman
>                sometimes appear to be getting the
>                short end of the stick regarding the
>                schedule.Many contests that I have
>                attended have them flying the
>                sequence twice because the routine
>                is so very short. I would like to
>                see their schedule slightly modified
>                to give them a little longer
>                sequence and a little additional
>                stimulation.
>                I would propose something like the
>                following.
>
>                1.T.O.
>
>                U
>                2.Free
>                Pass.
>                D
>                3.Straight Flight
>                Out.
>                C                      U
>                4.Procedure
>                Turn.
>                T
>                5.Straight Flight
>                Back.
>                C                      D
>                6.1/2 Reverse Cuban
>                Eight                       T
>                7.Immelman
>                Turn.
>                C                      U
>                8.Split
>                S.
>                T
>                9.2
>                Loops.
>                C                      U
>                10.Exit The
>                Box.
>                U
>                11.Enter The
>                Box.
>                D
>                12.Non-Rolling Triangular
>                Loop
>                C                      U
>                13.Humpty Bump 1/2 roll
>                up                      T
>                14.One 2-Point
>                Roll
>                C                      D
>                15.1/2 Cuban
>                Eight.
>                T
>                16.Non-Rolling
>                Cobra.
>                C                     U
>                17.Stall
>                Turn.
>                T
>                18.2
>                Rolls.
>                C                      D
>                19.Exit The Box.
>                20.Landing.
>
>                C                      U
>
>                C= Center,T=Turnaround, U= Upwind,
>                D=Downwind.
>
>                My rationale is that this is the
>                point that we need to encourage this
>
>                class of fliers to work on their
>                down elevator timing by introducing
>                2 rolls.This shouldn't be too much
>                for them to handle as they are
>                currently doing a 2 point roll. Also
>                the 2 loops will sharpen their
>                precision by making them work harder
>                at presentation placement.
>                The Procedure Turn will teach them
>                something that will be required,
>                and the Humpty should present no
>                major problems as they are already
>                doing a 1/2 Reverse Cuban.They
>                should be learning the Stall Turn
>                and
>                the Triangular Loop will further
>                strengthen their centering
>                skills.There are
>                seven maneuvers before taking a
>                breather and seven more to complete
>                the sequence.
>                Now these fellows can fly ONE
>                sequence like the rest of us and the
>
>                time required should be no longer
>                than the time required to fly a
>                double
>                schedule.
>
>                Sportsman pilots out there, let me
>                know what you think.
>                Georgie
>                P.S.I wonder if there are any
>                Sportsman guys monitoring this
>                list??
>
>

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