Rules don't grow sports!
Grow Pattern
pattern4u at comcast.net
Wed Feb 9 08:20:39 AKST 2005
Ref. "some of the major publications - like Model Aviation - pattern used to get more coverage - but it has dropped (probably proportionate to the reduction in our numbers)".
In actual fact what happened was that about two years ago they took the demographics from the little "what are you interested in" boxes that we fill in on the AMA membership application forms and determined the popularity of all of the columns that way. Then they reduced all of the columns to a maximum of 6 per year including a Nationals. Some categories get less than six, BTW.
Since then Rob Kurek, the guy in charge of Model Aviation, called me and also sent me a very exciting survey results document. Model Aviation ran a professional reader survey and guess what? the Pattern column was number two to Scale. Scale was number one. Even more encouraging was that in some categories the pattern column took the lead.
I don't know if I will ever get my 12 columns a year back, but it made me feel it was all worthwhile.
The modeling community still looks to pattern as a technology leader and really enjoys what we all achieve. Please forgive me for tooting my own horn but good news is hard to find these days and this was good!
Regards,
Eric.
----- Original Message -----
From: DaveL322 at comcast.net
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Rules don't grow sports!
Pete,
I'm familiar with the "claim" concept, and the dollar limit idea.
Questions I have -
-How does one deal with used equipment? Much of the top of the line stuff from the top fliers gets recycled to flyers in the lower classes - I know in the northeast alone that myself, Don Szczur, Eric Henderson, George Asteris, Earl Vincent, and Joe Lachowski (to name a few) have all sold planes were capable of flying at the highest levels to Sportsman and Intermediate pilots - some of the planes were well used and bare bones (relatively cheap) while some were backup planes that were close to new and pretty much RTF (relatively expensive).
-How do you set the price limit - ie, no matter what price limit you set, somebody will always want the number raised .5%, or 2%, or 10% because "your" arbitrary price limit is "needlessly" shutting out some really good equipment combinations that would otherwise allow more people into the event (gee, sounds a lot like the discussion on weight limit).
-Do "professional" building fees get included in airplane cost?
BTW - it might be harder than you think to get "face time" in some of the major publications - like Model Aviation - pattern used to get more coverage - but it has dropped (probably proportionate to the reduction in our numbers) because the magazines view the pattern group as a small demographic and devote what they consider to be an appropriate amount of coverage. Best way to combat this is too support magazines that support pattern - like FM - aka Mike Ramsey and Dean Pappas on this list.
Regards,
Dave Lockhart
DaveL322 at comcast.net
-------------- Original message --------------
> From an outsiders point of view Eric hit the nail on the head. If you don't
> get some "Face Time" the masses are not going to notice you. The NSRCA has a
> website and it would be easy enough to post some WMV files out there for
> download and make sure there are ads and articles in Model Aviation at the
> least and more mainstream magazines if possible.
>
> As for the debate about rules changes, the biggest stumbling block you have
> is the perceived need for a full blown pattern ship to even compete in
> sportsman. I know....I went and bought one before I did any homework on the
> issue. If you want people to be more comfortable. put a spending cap on the
> gear you can use in sportsman like some auto race organizations do with
> "Claimer" classes. You can only spend X amount and base it on list prices.
> If you can only spend $600 to $700 on a plane and engine you just knocked
> most of the high dollar stuff out of the running. Pick an ARF any ARF and a
> good engine and there is $600 +/-.
>
> Take it for what it is. Just one guy's opinion.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Grow Pattern"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 10:01
> Subject: Rules don't grow sports!
>
>
> > It's not the "driving away" that is the problem. It may seem that way, but
> > attrition is normal in any sport. The really big problem is "attraction".
> >
> > I keep a close eye on the ages of the folks joining and the ages of the
> > folks leaving. the leaving is pretty normal. The joining age group is very
> > sparse in the below 20, and the 20-30 range.
> >
> > This tree has no soil around its roots.....
> >
> > I would submit to you all that what we debate over size, weight etc. has
> > very little to do with whether a new person joins or not. If you are new,
> > you tend to accept the rules as the challenge, and go fly. You have no
> > history so are not that concerned. There are much brighter lights gaining
> > your attention, not least of which is the thrill of competing.
> >
> > What is more critical than any rule is the complete lack of promotional
> > material, lack of tools for our VP's and members to use to promote our
> > sport. You don't even have a handout/brochure any more. No video to do a
> > "show and tell" at a club night. No formula for growth at all.
> >
> > Imagine if all of the effort that we put into debating a rule was used to
> > put your teeth into something that we could all use out there at the WRAM
> > or Toledo show. Imagine flight demo-tapes running in continuous loops,
> > Aresti diagrams hanging from the walls, THEN wake up to the reality of
> > running the judging tape at your booth....
> >
> > I know and acknowledge that there are some individual points of light out
> > there where great work has been done, but it is not a concerted effort or
> > coordinated NSRCA plan, or intent.
> >
> > It really is time to get the NSRCA galvanized in to some real activities
> > for growth.
> >
> > In publishing we say "Publish or perish!. In a sport it is "PROMOTE or
> > PERISH!"
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Eric.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Del K. Rykert"
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey
> >
> >
> >> Show me the changes in last 20 years that hasn't also turned some
> >> away...? One of the reason not as many participate as once did... Leave
> >> it alone unless you want to drive more away.
> >>
> >> del
> >> nsrca 473
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Wayne Galligan"
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:29 AM
> >> Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey
> >>
> >>
> >>> Nat,
> >>>
> >>> Your right... look at the last three years at the Nats and what took top
> >>> honors in the masters class.....an ARF that cost less then $600.
> >>>
> >>> WG
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Nat Penton"
> >>> To:
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:21 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Some of you are over estimating the importance of the airplane and
> >>>> underestimating the potential of the pilot. Nat
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Bill Southwell"
> >>>> To:
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:56 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> > Tom how so? If there are available engines that actually hold up but
> >>> are
> >>>> > a bit more porky....but also a lot cheaper to own both in intial
> >>> purchase
> >>>> > and in up keep how can it lead to a more expensive airplane. Cost of
> >>>> > the
> >>>> > present designs are due to the materials and mathods of production
> >>>> > required tokeep the weight down. A little more room would make more
> >>>> > pedestrian material like balsa , ply. and foam to come back or at
> >>>> > least
> >>>> > make the average builder have hope.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Tom Shaw wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> You guys need to leave well enough alone. With the unlimited
> >>>> >> engines a
> >>>> >> higher weight limit is just going to ecourage larger more expenseive
> >>>> >> airplanes. That will amount to fewer flyers.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> >> *From:* Gray E Fowler
> >>>> >> *To:* discussion at nsrca.org
> >>>> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 08, 2005 4:25 PM
> >>>> >> *Subject:* RE: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Here comes the dreaded weight debate again....
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Consider this-Anyone in the upper level classes would not be too
> >>>> >> smart to have a plane heavier than it needs to be. But, lets
> >>>> >> pretend there is a hot new Sportsman named uh lets see.....
> >>>> >> Chuck.
> >>>> >> Chuck tears up 401 after 3 contests, and he is flying his best
> >>>> >> airplane that most FAI guys would consider a toy (and I do not
> >>>> >> mean the "foamie toys" pictured in last months Model Aviation
> >>>> >> being held by a guy named "Chuck") and so moving up to
> >>>> >> Intermediate halfway thru his first season, last 3 contests were
> >>>> >> quite a challenge, BUT he places in 402 anyway!
> >>>> >> In the off season, he saves his pennies, keeps his wife happy
> >>>> >> and
> >>>> >> gets a used REAL pattern plane, built by someone who has a
> >>>> >> slight
> >>>> >> heavy hand, and alas it weighs 11.5 lbs. Now this here Chuck is
> >>>> >> good and pumped up and I would place money that this theoretical
> >>>> >> person could place at the NATS, but his plane is over
> >>>> >> weight!!!!!
> >>>> >> one more !
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Sorry Chuck, even though you are flying at a disadvantage, we
> >>>> >> will
> >>>> >> not let you play at the NATS........Oh unless you can spend $2k
> >>>> >> more on another plane.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The story you have just read is about to be true, once we do not
> >>>> >> let Chuck fly at this years NATS. But at least the French FAI
> >>>> >> rule
> >>>> >> makers are happy.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Consider a weight change. It does not need to be across the
> >>>> >> board
> >>>> >> and for the life of me I cannot imagine why it needs to align
> >>>> >> with
> >>>> >> FAI. Chuck will have a 5Kg plane *BY THE TIME HE REACHES
> >>>> >> FAI-*and
> >>>> >> the French can be happy then*.*
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >
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> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > --
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