Rules don't grow sports!
DaveL322 at comcast.net
DaveL322 at comcast.net
Wed Feb 9 07:23:42 AKST 2005
Pete,
I'm familiar with the "claim" concept, and the dollar limit idea.
Questions I have -
-How does one deal with used equipment? Much of the top of the line stuff from the top fliers gets recycled to flyers in the lower classes - I know in the northeast alone that myself, Don Szczur, Eric Henderson, George Asteris, Earl Vincent, and Joe Lachowski (to name a few) have all sold planes were capable of flying at the highest levels to Sportsman and Intermediate pilots - some of the planes were well used and bare bones (relatively cheap) while some were backup planes that were close to new and pretty much RTF (relatively expensive).
-How do you set the price limit - ie, no matter what price limit you set, somebody will always want the number raised .5%, or 2%, or 10% because "your" arbitrary price limit is "needlessly" shutting out some really good equipment combinations that would otherwise allow more people into the event (gee, sounds a lot like the discussion on weight limit).
-Do "professional" building fees get included in airplane cost?
BTW - it might be harder than you think to get "face time" in some of the major publications - like Model Aviation - pattern used to get more coverage - but it has dropped (probably proportionate to the reduction in our numbers) because the magazines view the pattern group as a small demographic and devote what they consider to be an appropriate amount of coverage. Best way to combat this is too support magazines that support pattern - like FM - aka Mike Ramsey and Dean Pappas on this list.
Regards,
Dave Lockhart
DaveL322 at comcast.net
-------------- Original message --------------
> From an outsiders point of view Eric hit the nail on the head. If you don't
> get some "Face Time" the masses are not going to notice you. The NSRCA has a
> website and it would be easy enough to post some WMV files out there for
> download and make sure there are ads and articles in Model Aviation at the
> least and more mainstream magazines if possible.
>
> As for the debate about rules changes, the biggest stumbling block you have
> is the perceived need for a full blown pattern ship to even compete in
> sportsman. I know....I went and bought one before I did any homework on the
> issue. If you want people to be more comfortable. put a spending cap on the
> gear you can use in sportsman like some auto race organizations do with
> "Claimer" classes. You can only spend X amount and base it on list prices.
> If you can only spend $600 to $700 on a plane and engine you just knocked
> most of the high dollar stuff out of the running. Pick an ARF any ARF and a
> good engine and there is $600 +/-.
>
> Take it for what it is. Just one guy's opinion.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Grow Pattern"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 10:01
> Subject: Rules don't grow sports!
>
>
> > It's not the "driving away" that is the problem. It may seem that way, but
> > attrition is normal in any sport. The really big problem is "attraction".
> >
> > I keep a close eye on the ages of the folks joining and the ages of the
> > folks leaving. the leaving is pretty normal. The joining age group is very
> > sparse in the below 20, and the 20-30 range.
> >
> > This tree has no soil around its roots.....
> >
> > I would submit to you all that what we debate over size, weight etc. has
> > very little to do with whether a new person joins or not. If you are new,
> > you tend to accept the rules as the challenge, and go fly. You have no
> > history so are not that concerned. There are much brighter lights gaining
> > your attention, not least of which is the thrill of competing.
> >
> > What is more critical than any rule is the complete lack of promotional
> > material, lack of tools for our VP's and members to use to promote our
> > sport. You don't even have a handout/brochure any more. No video to do a
> > "show and tell" at a club night. No formula for growth at all.
> >
> > Imagine if all of the effort that we put into debating a rule was used to
> > put your teeth into something that we could all use out there at the WRAM
> > or Toledo show. Imagine flight demo-tapes running in continuous loops,
> > Aresti diagrams hanging from the walls, THEN wake up to the reality of
> > running the judging tape at your booth....
> >
> > I know and acknowledge that there are some individual points of light out
> > there where great work has been done, but it is not a concerted effort or
> > coordinated NSRCA plan, or intent.
> >
> > It really is time to get the NSRCA galvanized in to some real activities
> > for growth.
> >
> > In publishing we say "Publish or perish!. In a sport it is "PROMOTE or
> > PERISH!"
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Eric.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Del K. Rykert"
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey
> >
> >
> >> Show me the changes in last 20 years that hasn't also turned some
> >> away...? One of the reason not as many participate as once did... Leave
> >> it alone unless you want to drive more away.
> >>
> >> del
> >> nsrca 473
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Wayne Galligan"
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:29 AM
> >> Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey
> >>
> >>
> >>> Nat,
> >>>
> >>> Your right... look at the last three years at the Nats and what took top
> >>> honors in the masters class.....an ARF that cost less then $600.
> >>>
> >>> WG
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Nat Penton"
> >>> To:
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:21 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Some of you are over estimating the importance of the airplane and
> >>>> underestimating the potential of the pilot. Nat
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Bill Southwell"
> >>>> To:
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:56 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> > Tom how so? If there are available engines that actually hold up but
> >>> are
> >>>> > a bit more porky....but also a lot cheaper to own both in intial
> >>> purchase
> >>>> > and in up keep how can it lead to a more expensive airplane. Cost of
> >>>> > the
> >>>> > present designs are due to the materials and mathods of production
> >>>> > required tokeep the weight down. A little more room would make more
> >>>> > pedestrian material like balsa , ply. and foam to come back or at
> >>>> > least
> >>>> > make the average builder have hope.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Tom Shaw wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> You guys need to leave well enough alone. With the unlimited
> >>>> >> engines a
> >>>> >> higher weight limit is just going to ecourage larger more expenseive
> >>>> >> airplanes. That will amount to fewer flyers.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> >> *From:* Gray E Fowler
> >>>> >> *To:* discussion at nsrca.org
> >>>> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 08, 2005 4:25 PM
> >>>> >> *Subject:* RE: *SPAM* Re: Rules Survey
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Here comes the dreaded weight debate again....
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Consider this-Anyone in the upper level classes would not be too
> >>>> >> smart to have a plane heavier than it needs to be. But, lets
> >>>> >> pretend there is a hot new Sportsman named uh lets see.....
> >>>> >> Chuck.
> >>>> >> Chuck tears up 401 after 3 contests, and he is flying his best
> >>>> >> airplane that most FAI guys would consider a toy (and I do not
> >>>> >> mean the "foamie toys" pictured in last months Model Aviation
> >>>> >> being held by a guy named "Chuck") and so moving up to
> >>>> >> Intermediate halfway thru his first season, last 3 contests were
> >>>> >> quite a challenge, BUT he places in 402 anyway!
> >>>> >> In the off season, he saves his pennies, keeps his wife happy
> >>>> >> and
> >>>> >> gets a used REAL pattern plane, built by someone who has a
> >>>> >> slight
> >>>> >> heavy hand, and alas it weighs 11.5 lbs. Now this here Chuck is
> >>>> >> good and pumped up and I would place money that this theoretical
> >>>> >> person could place at the NATS, but his plane is over
> >>>> >> weight!!!!!
> >>>> >> one more !
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Sorry Chuck, even though you are flying at a disadvantage, we
> >>>> >> will
> >>>> >> not let you play at the NATS........Oh unless you can spend $2k
> >>>> >> more on another plane.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The story you have just read is about to be true, once we do not
> >>>> >> let Chuck fly at this years NATS. But at least the French FAI
> >>>> >> rule
> >>>> >> makers are happy.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Consider a weight change. It does not need to be across the
> >>>> >> board
> >>>> >> and for the life of me I cannot imagine why it needs to align
> >>>> >> with
> >>>> >> FAI. Chuck will have a 5Kg plane *BY THE TIME HE REACHES
> >>>> >> FAI-*and
> >>>> >> the French can be happy then*.*
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >
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> >>>> >
> >>>> >
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